RADBMX.CO.UK
Old School BMX 1980 - 1988 => Old School Race (riders ready, pedals ready... GO!!) => Topic started by: jimmyp on August 12, 2006, 07:22 PM
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Well i don't know what to make of this. Just bought this bike of an old friend who has had it since he was a kid and its def a supergoos because he has had it from new and i used to know the bike. Now i know what you are going to say but there isnt two holes in the brake bridge. But i also had a supergoose as a kid and can't remember it having two holes in the brake bridge or the rear tubes being thicker. I have weighed the bikes and they both weigh the same and they are both the same length as you can see by the photos. So is it right that the uk supergoose is different to the usa supergoose and if so why???. Why didnt they make them the same, and has anyone else got a uk spec supergoose, cheers dudes :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0690.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0692.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0698.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0691.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0696.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0693.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0695.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0697.jpg)
:daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
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i dunno, but they look cool next to each other like that.
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i have read that the us supergoose hase a thicker diameter back end (like a proclass) than the uk i think that some of the early ones didnt have 3 holes in the brake bridge (though this may only apply to sg1 sg2 ) lovely ff by the way i love supergeese your a lucky man mine looks like the fatter back end one us i guess BTW that kick stand hole is criminal
out of interest what year are they?
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Yeah who would put a stand on a supergoose, fooking idiot. The uk super is an 84 and the usa super is a 83 me thinks ;) :daumenhoch:
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only one of those is a supergoose
the geometry on the back end is different (As the pics show) - the supergoose has a lower BB. makes for a nice ride IMO
the front triangles look identical though
i have a super and an expert frame - put together they look like the 2 in the photos here
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only one of those is a supergoose
the geometry on the back end is different (As the pics show) - the supergoose has a lower BB. makes for a nice ride IMO
the front triangles look identical though
i have a super and an expert frame - put together they look like the 2 in the photos here
I can see what you are saying but did the uk supergoose have a lower BB?? There seems to be nothing to compare it to because everybody has usa supergoose's. Also the decals are original and as i said my friend bought the bike new as a supergoose.
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Kuwahara raised the BB on the Laserlite to allegedly make that a better race frame (for some reason or other that i can't remember) ::)
not got much to do with the gooses but i'd like to know the merits of a change in BB height if anyone can enlighten us?
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the supergoose had a lower bb, and fatter rear stays. maybe the pro class shared this geometry, i dont know
not sure there was ever a "uk" supergoose. just a supergoose.
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Heres my take on these. The frame with the kickstand hole is a supergoose. The fatter rear end (yummy) and the bb drop. Also the forks are different if you look closer. The bearing race is higher on the fork/ frame without the hole.
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When i was a kid my mate had a expert and i had a supergoose and he always said how can you tell the difference between the two because they look exactly the same. And the only way you could tell was by the weight because the supergoose has chromoly frame and forks where as the expert only had chromoloy main frame. You new this by the little sticker at the top of the frame by the headset as in the photo
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0691.jpg)
So the only way to find out if this is a supergoose or not is by the weight. So tomorrow im going to go and get both frames weighed and see what the results are. If any one has a expert or cali frame then if you could weigh it also and this would give us a better idea. Also if anyone has a usa supergoose then weigh this also, cheers :daumenhoch:
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The one with the extra holes certainly has diff geometry and fatter back tubes as already mentioned. Perhaps they changed over a year or perhaps the "UK" one is simply stickered up incorrectly.
Be interesting to see the different weights.
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the difference in weight between a super and a cali/expert is marginal
the way to tell is: fatter rear stays, different rear end/bb geo, and the 3 holes
maybe an unscrupulous bike shop dealer stickered up an expert and sold it as a super
prior to the days of internet forums discussing tube guages, you'd be none the wiser
i think there was only one supergoose - not a uk and a us one.
the expert was full chromo and a great frame, and i think the 85 calis were full chromo too.
all good
you got 2 nice framesets there mate. steam off the supergoose stickers on the lookylikey and sell them to me :)
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Were they all not made in taiwan after 1980
:LolLolLolLol:
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Were they all not made in taiwan after 1980
:LolLolLolLol:
exactly.
the taiwanese make quality bikes though. hard workers
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sore finger?
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thems nice them
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Only pics i have of uk supergoose, which was different to usa supergoose because of spec and frams geomatry. The diffrences on the uk supergoose was it came with renthal bars not pro class. It had the smaller sr pedals not the bigger sr MP-470. I think it also came with mx 1000 brakes no just pro class mx, and the big debate the standard size frame but all chromoly Frame and Fork not the oversize tubes of the usa edition. the saddle was also different as you can see by the photo's, first the u.k edition then the usa edition
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image1.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image2.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image3.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image4.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image5.jpg)
These are pics of a bike that is in the museam on Vintagebmx.com it is listed as a u.k. Supergoose
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/goose59.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/goose54.jpg)
Now pics of the usa bike
(http://)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/supergoose7x.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/supergoose3x.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/supergoose5x.jpg)
Looking at those pics the rear triangle def looks thinner on the uk edition. Whether there is two holes in the brake bridge i can't tell but as i said i had a supergoose as a kid and it never had two extra holes in the brake bridge. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :idiot2: :daumenhoch:
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looks like the same frame to me
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Well i weighed the frames this morning on proper scales used to weigh food and here are the results :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
The U.K. Supergoose Frame weight 2.370 kg
The USA Supergoose Frame weight 2.395 kg
The U.K. Supergoose Frame & Forks total weight is 3.235 kg
The USA Supurgoose Frame & Forks total weight is 3.250 kg
So the results are that the uk supergoose frame and forks are 15grams lighter than the usa version. I thought before i weighed the bikes that they would weigh the same or the usa version would be slightly lighter because of the hole in the rear where the stand was. But when you think about it the tubes on the usa bike are alot bigger than the uk bike thus meaning it is slightly heavier by 15 grams. Would love to know what a Pro Class weighed and also a Expert and Cali frame and forks.
If you read the spec for the u.k bike it reads that the Top Tube is 1.1/8inch and the Down Tube is 1.1/8inch so straight away this tells you that the frames are different because as we all know the usa version has a different size top tube and down tube. Both bikes are deffenatly made from chromoly so as far as i can see the other bike is deffenatly a uk supergoose and that the usa supergoose and the u.k supergoose are deffenatly different bikes. Why Mongoose did this i don't know because to build two different frames seems stupid but they deffenatly have. But there uk devision was seperate from them with the ammaco tie up was it. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
But hey at least we now know that even the uk bike is lighter than the yank version so we still kick there arse :LolLolLolLol:
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i didnt realise the supergoose had different sized top and down tubes
i will measure mine later. they look the same as my expert / cali frame though!
where are the serial numbers on your 2 gooses?
my super has the serial on the edge of the box wishbone, whereas on the cali and expert it is (iirc) on the bottom bracket
if there was a "uk supergoose", then it seems they took an expert frame and put supergoose parts and stickers on it.
another example of british consumers getting shafted compared to our US counterparts
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i didnt realise the supergoose had different sized top and down tubes
i will measure mine later. they look the same as my expert / cali frame though!
where are the serial numbers on your 2 gooses?
my super has the serial on the edge of the box wishbone, whereas on the cali and expert it is (iirc) on the bottom bracket
if there was a "uk supergoose", then it seems they took an expert frame and put supergoose parts and stickers on it.
another example of british consumers getting shafted compared to our US counterparts
The usa is on the box section, the uk is on the BB. The u.k. supergoose frame is not he same as expert though because the supergoose has chromoly frame and forks. The only way they are the same is by the dimentions and size of the tubes used to make the frame. My guess is that the expert frame is probs a lot heavier than the supergoose. Have you got one you can weigh.
Good news though that it is lighter than the usa version, we got one over on the yanks :Great_Britain: :Great_Britain:
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the expert was all chromoly. well mine is.
(http://30cms.co.uk/temp/z/expert1.JPG)
(http://30cms.co.uk/temp/z/expert2.JPG)
i have both an expert and a super frame, but they are both built into bikes
although i will bet my ass that my expert weighs the same as your one.
and my expert frame was identical in every way to my cali frame.
the super however, is different. they were a teeny bit heavier because they had a fatter rear end.
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the expert was all chromoly. well mine is.
(http://30cms.co.uk/temp/z/expert1.JPG)
(http://30cms.co.uk/temp/z/expert2.JPG)
i have both an expert and a super frame, but they are both built into bikes
although i will bet my ass that my expert weighs the same as your one.
and my expert frame was identical in every way to my cali frame.
the super however, is different. they were a teeny bit heavier because they had a fatter rear end.
Yes all tubes chromoly frame, but not Frame and Forks as on the supergoose sticker. And i bet that the uk supergoose frame and forks are lighter than that expert or cali. Def lighter than one with only chromoly main frame. But saying that iv'e never seen a sticker like that on an expert or cali, they normaly just say chromoly main frame.
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the plot thickens.
weigh it greame.
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the supergoose stickers say chromo frame and fork
i think the expert was initially shipped with steel forks, like the calis. i could be wrong.
but the frame will weigh the same as yours if yours is all chromo too.
i have never heard of a "uk" supergoose
it sounds to me like an expert with supergoose stickers though.
still a good bike. maybe in some ways better, if you prefer the slightly raised BB
if the uk mongoose people were selling what they said was a "supergoose" but was actually a lesser frame stickered up as one then that's shameful
as the supergoose frame has clear differences from the expert and cali.
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the plot thickens.
weigh it greame.
i will measure the tubes on my super and expert
tbh i think the front ends are the same. if the super has thicker tubes, then they aint much thicker. i want 2" or no dice
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this is another good way to spot a supergoose
(http://www.30cms.co.uk/temp/z/ssup4.JPG)
may be the same on high end mongs though, but its different to the caliexpert
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is that a crack?
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A good way to spot a usa supergoose but as we can see not a good way to spot a uk version. The number for my usa super is k3002471. The number for the u.k. super is M4J19528. Im not sure we've been ripped of because th uk bike is lighter all round and lighter is good :) :) :)
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My understanding is this
mongoose made the supergoose as 100% chromo F&F
later in the states they made a chunky version of it
a few of which are over here now
i can only assume they did this after the pro class came out
tube sizes being the same as the pro class just not as thin walled
uk spec bkes stayed the same diamter top and down tube
according to adverts etc
the expert was a USA only bike and had so it seems both all tubes and main frame only
over the years, as i too had a all tubes frame but it had all steel companents
but have heard / seen main tube only frames
the cali has been seen in both varients, though in the UK up to 85 ish
it was a main tubes only frame.
experts and calis generally have a single hole in the rear brake bridge
where as a super should have the 3 hole bridge
the grand prix - well lets forget that for now
looking at the pics posted one has 3 holes and the other has a single
to my mind one is a super (3 hole) the other is a cali / blue max poss
or if all tubes an expert
note all this is subject to change as mongoose it seems just churned them
what are the serials on them both ?
is one the the 84 you mentioned in the pm ?
as we could have another twist in the mongoose frame story here ....
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Yes it is the one mentioned in the pm. But looking at the brake bridge on the uk bike i don't think you could put three holes in there it would be too weak. the only reason they have done it on the usa version is because it bigger because the rear is wider on the usa frame :D :D
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ok you got me
i will strip the expert and weigh it.
if it weighs the same as yours i am gonna put supergoose stickers on it and sell it.
it's gonna be lighter than a supergoose, as it has thinner tubes on the back. not much lighter though.
my super is an 83, and my expert is an 84
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you could be right
i know a lot of UK / european bikes were built in france by motobecane (sp?)
so more varients due to different factories etc
ruler
my cali is stamped there too .....
as were pro classes
mongoose - great bikes just hard to work whats what
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ok you got me
i will strip the expert and weigh it.
if it weighs the same as yours i am gonna put supergoose stickers on it and sell it.
it's gonna be lighter than a supergoose, as it has thinner tubes on the back. not much lighter though.
my super is an 83, and my expert is an 84
Lighter than which supergoose? uk or usa? remember the uk is lighter
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ok you got me
i will strip the expert and weigh it.
if it weighs the same as yours i am gonna put supergoose stickers on it and sell it.
it's gonna be lighter than a supergoose, as it has thinner tubes on the back. not much lighter though.
my super is an 83, and my expert is an 84
if it does weigh the same, according to this thread, and there are a lot of knowledgable people on it, there is no way to tell the difference.......so you would be ok....
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you got a pic of the expert greame?
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what year did the super 3 come out?
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83 me thinks
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i would say the same
1983
early pro class were seen around 1982
(stidds has one)
the first 3 came over with maloney ruffell + ??? at end of 1982
so new generation of non gusset gooses woiuld of followed from there
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then my super is an 83, first one
it has the rear fatter tubing and different bb height (and the 3 hole bridge)
did the down tube increase in size in later years?
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you got a pic of the expert greame?
this is the only pic i have uploaded. took it last weekend. it was slung together with spare parts to put into storage (at my mate's house) while we move house.
i have to drop off 9 framesets there tonight, so i will get the "x" back to strip, and measure the girth of the super tubes
(http://30cms.co.uk/temp/z/expertcomplete.jpg)
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not sure
i would have thought fat rear end tubes would have had thicker downtube like the pro class
cali rear is about same size as the box section it joins onto
pro class etc is bigger than it
you may have another option / twist
and i thought i had this "whats my goose ?" sussed :(
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as far as i knew, all the supers had larger tubes at the back. thats what made them SUPER !!!!!!!!!!!!
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thats what i thought.....are the tubes a different diammeter on that expert?
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ah now if you look at the uk advert you can see it has same diameter tubes as the box section
i have a US test where they state they have beef it up to the pro class spec
thus proving i had a Us supergoose and not a pro class
thats not to say the uk models didn't have the tubes
just theres never any mention of it that i have seen
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i had a super, cali and expert frame all together to compare them one time
the expert and cali were identical, and the only difference on the super was the rear end
the front end looked the same though. exactly the same
maybe in later years the super had a beefier downtube, but the back end was always chunky.
i see no evidence to say that there was a UK supergoose that had the cali rear end.
i am up for being proved wrong though. mongoose did have some strange deviations. but that was mainly in the gusseted models
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Am lookin for a decent Proclass and am now shattin it in case I end up with a supergoose frame decalled up as a Proclass :-\
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The only reason iv'e started this debait is because there have been a number of uk supergoose's on ebay and at the time i thought the same as you dudes that supergoose's had three holes in the brake bridge. But when i asked that question to the people who were selling they all said no the bikes just had the one hole. This got me thinking back to my supergoose i had as a kid and can't remember it having three holes either. Now ive stumbeled across this frame as well and it also does not have three holes. One of the sellers even posted a pic of the brake bridge as you can see in the photo's
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/7a_1.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/2c_1.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/supergoose1.jpg)
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/fd_1_b.jpg)
Now you can't tell me that all these bikes have been stickerd wrong by some unscruplias bike dealer. The supergoose only cost about £70 more than a cali. By the time you put all the correct components on it would have cost him more to do. And i was getting worried because maybe people are buying these bikes of ebay looking at them and thinking this is not a supergoose. Then ripping all the stickers of and putting cali stickers on, when infact they are supergoose's after all, UK Supergoose's infact.
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i have never heard of a uk supergoose until reading this thread.
bitd the supergoose stickers would be easy to get, and would make a great hop up for your cali though
if i was looking on the bay, and there was a supergoose which didnt have the supergoose hallmarks, then i would probably still buy it, but not for supergoose money.
ebay sellers aint always legit either. the amount of burners stickered up as TA's. a uk TA?
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good point, it is unlikely.
but, if i was to buy a supergoose, i would want the fat rear end, 3 holes, despite the fact that there may or may not have been a uk version.
good debate though. you learn somthing new everyday.
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but, if i was to buy a supergoose, i would want the fat rear end
I could buy any Supergoose and still have a fat rear end
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lol
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nope you may well be right
i know no different regards the rear ends of supergooses
maybe it was just the down tube that changed then
but i am learning quick today ;D
the one way i thought we had has now just been proved not to be the case
so we are back to square one
if a sellers sure they are orig decals then you have to go by that i guess
un decaled frames are gonna bit a of a lottery again
any chances we could all post some pics of know models and serials, some dimensions and diameters etc
he he he - skip hess sure left us a great legacy :daumenhoch:
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i have never heard of a uk supergoose until reading this thread.
bitd the supergoose stickers would be easy to get, and would make a great hop up for your cali though
if i was looking on the bay, and there was a supergoose which didnt have the supergoose hallmarks, then i would probably still buy it, but not for supergoose money.
ebay sellers aint always legit either. the amount of burners stickered up as TA's. a uk TA?
But the stickers are old, you can tell by the photo's. Also by the other evidence there was two diff bikes because of spec and frame sizes. Uk bike renthal bars, sr pedals, sr stem, different saddle and so on. The uk bike was deff spected different thus making a different bike. you must have seen a supergoose back in the day, dudes
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Is there no one we can talk to about this who worked for mongoose. Has anyone got a uk broucher that would help alot. Or somone who worked in a bike shop back in the day?????? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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they would probably all tell you different stories, swearing them to be true.
at the end of the day, the bikes were not made to be looked back at retrospectively, in such detail, and they probably never realised the scrutiny they would be under.
given the long production period, the different factories, the different countries, the ammaco thang, plus sticker availability then AND now, plus unscrpulous dealers then, plus unscrupulous dealers now, i dont think you will ever get to the bottom of it, short of them being stamped with "exper" super" proclass" etc.
we had all this with hutch stuff a while ago, and after a lot of debate, including people who worked for the company's, the end result was still unclear.
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Also by the other evidence there was two diff bikes because of spec and frame sizes. Uk bike renthal bars, sr pedals, sr stem, different saddle and so on. The uk bike was deff spected different thus making a different bike. you must have seen a supergoose back in the day, dudes
they may have had different parts (renthals - a uk brand?) but the frames were the same. the super always had the sanmarco rear end, afik.
if the frames were bare then there would be no question at all. there are distinct differences between the models (except the cali and expert)
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The bottom one in the pics is deff a Supergoose, its my mates and spent two days helping him clean the fooker after collecting it from Liverpool before he sold it a few months back on ebay :tickedoff:
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i tihnk we will get there
its when though ;D :(
buckmore bat worked at ammaco for a while
he could shed some light on it too
and he has a supergoose as well
he races in OS so may well get him to contribute here
i never saw a goose BITD withut a gusset so this is all a learning curve for me
more pics
more dicussion
more gooses
any one got skip hess or malc jarvis email ? ;D
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The bottom one in the pics is deff a Supergoose, its my mates and spent two days helping him clean the fooker after collecting it from Liverpool before he sold it a few months back on ebay :tickedoff:
did it have the 3 holes and girthier rear tubes?
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOOSE-CLOTHING-Superman-SUPERGOOSE-Outfit_W0QQitemZ150013105657QQihZ005QQcategoryZ75596QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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its actually an expert outfit ;)
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The bottom one in the pics is deff a Supergoose, its my mates and spent two days helping him clean the fooker after collecting it from Liverpool before he sold it a few months back on ebay :tickedoff:
did it have the 3 holes and girthier rear tubes?
No neither, rode nice though :LolLolLolLol: tight as ducks, dead smooth :4_17_5:
Ok whats the crack with the proclass power disks was that an aftermarket thing??
Sorry to add another angle :Aresehole:
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i think proclass discs come on some models, but not others
and if your mate's goose had no supergoose features other than a sticker set, what makes you think it was a super?
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Well, when we went to fetch it the guy maintained he had it from new and was a very original bike. I guess it also could have been subject to a shop re decal from new :-[
I am just tryin to locate all the pics we took of the bike and will post em up if i find em :daumenhoch:
Lee
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i think its gonna be an unsolvable mystery
is there a test on a supergoose done in a UK mag where they say it has a different frame to the US supergoose?
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Only UK test i have at the mo
has blurry arty type pics
and jimmyp has post those already in this thread
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Well, when we went to fetch it the guy maintained he had it from new and was a very original bike. I guess it also could have been subject to a shop re decal from new :-[
I am just tryin to locate all the pics we took of the bike and will post em up if i find em :daumenhoch:
Lee
COME ON GUYS THERE IS NO SHOP RE -DECAL THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE UK SUPERGOOSE DID NOT HAVE A FATTER REAR END AND DID NOT HAVE THREE HOLES IN THE REAR BRAKE BRIDGE. This bike was also owned from brand new and was bought from a local bike shop as a supergoose i trust my mate and have known the bike from newand what about all those ebay frames that i pointed out.
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lol.
it wouldnt hold up in court.
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:LolLolLolLol: you have to laugh because if i don't i will cry. :'( :'( But lets see the next super that comes on ebay i will ask the question again. At the moment ive asked 6 people on ebay from jan till now, all said no it does not have 3 holes in the brake bridge + this bike i have here and the bike that bananaman did up with his mate so thats 8 bikes in total. Pretty good evidence if you ask me ;) ;)
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i will weigh my expert frame tonight and see if it ties in with the weight of your wrongoose :)
i am 98% sure i am right, but if you can present me with evidence other than "the guy thats SELLING it says its a supergoose" then i will kneel and kiss your uk supergoose sword.
IDing this generation of goose frames is usually pretty straightforward!
does anyone have a cali frame they could weigh? my cali felt the same weight as my expert.
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and here's a supergoose frame, same year as mine
http://cgi.ebay.com/supergoose-mongoose-frame-20-frame-cro-mo-old-school_W0QQitemZ260019154192QQihZ016QQcategoryZ64644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Thing is to date we have no definate comparision
chances are you are 100% on the money with what you say
and goose lore moves on to a new level
trouble will then be telling them apart from the cali's again
so we will be back to square one on that front (but pls see later on in post)
could be worth asking on vintage to post pics of mk3 supergooses
and see what comes up there
be handy of more pics appeared here to help judge
so just re-cap current thinking is
UK spec supergooses
have single hole rear BBridge
and also the chunky rear stays
plus same diameter down and top tubes
so if you compared a cali to super the chunky rear would show one from t'other
so zoom those cameras in lads (and poss lass's too)
can't see ebay ..... arghhhhh
-
UK spec supergooses
have single hole rear BBridge
and also the chunky rear stays
plus same diameter down and top tubes
no the uk supergoose is actually identical to a cali style frame
-
The weight is the key me thinks :) :) :)
Just have another look at the pics though, it looks standard frame to me
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image2.jpg)
and the spec sheet
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/Image5.jpg)
-
and here's a supergoose frame, same year as mine
http://cgi.ebay.com/supergoose-mongoose-frame-20-frame-cro-mo-old-school_W0QQitemZ260019154192QQihZ016QQcategoryZ64644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
That a usa frame though ;)
-
if only they'd pictured the brake bridge, and measured the od of the stays.
instead they told us that mongoose forks were unbreakable. lol.
That a usa frame though ;)
were they made in the USA? i thought they all came from the same factory in taiwan
-
Thing is to date we have no definate comparision
chances are you are 100% on the money with what you say
and goose lore moves on to a new level
trouble will then be telling them apart from the cali's again
so we will be back to square one on that front (but pls see later on in post)
could be worth asking on vintage to post pics of mk3 supergooses
and see what comes up there
be handy of more pics appeared here to help judge
so just re-cap current thinking is
UK spec supergooses
have single hole rear BBridge
and also the chunky rear stays
plus same diameter down and top tubes
No UK Supergoose
have single hole rear BBridge
Standard rear triangle, not over size Pro Class
And full chromoly Frame & Forks
Making it lighter than a usa supergoose.
Easy
-
gotacha now ! :daumenhoch:
so back to square one then with cali / uk supergoose frames
baring a accurate weighing
how much less does chromo weigh than regualr mild steel then ?
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gotacha now ! :daumenhoch:
so back to square one then with cali / uk supergoose frames
baring a accurate weighing
how much less does chromo weigh than regualr mild steel then ?
Ive already weighed them up dude look at page 2 middle, sorry just the supergoose frames not the steel frames
-
i will weigh my full chromo expert frame tonight (i dont have the right forks)
if someone can weigh a cali too, that may help.
-
i will weigh my full chromo expert frame tonight (i dont have the right forks)
if someone can weigh a cali too, that may help.
Can you weigh the usa super as well dude or is it all built up :daumenhoch:
-
to tell you the truth i dont know if it will help as scales differ, if its a very small amount, i dont think youll have conclusive. but it would be interesting to see.
are you saying greame, that your expert , if unstickered, and that "uk"goose were unstickered, they would be identical? bar the weight?
-
to tell you the truth i dont know if it will help as scales differ, if its a very small amount, i dont think youll have conclusive. but it would be interesting to see.
are you saying greame, that your expert , if unstickered, and that "uk"goose were unstickered, they would be identical? bar the weight?
Yes i think he is because the sticker says chromoly tubes. But the thing is that the uk super had chromoly forks as well
-
sod the forks....they can be lost, changed....etc
same as with stickers......
were talkin about a frame id here i think...
-
if you had your uk goose, and an expert, with no stickers on, just frames, next to each other you should be able to tell one from the other, by SOMETHING!.....even if it is weight......
if not THEY ARE THE SAME BIKE!....lol if they are the same,...they are the same...whoever or whater put what stickers and forks on is irrellevent...
-
sod the forks....they can be lost, changed....etc
were talkin about a frame id here i think...
The thing is i have an expert from the usa and it says just chromoly Main Frame not rear triangle chromoly as well :D :D :D
and its an 85 model
-
if bob haro took a grifter, put gen 1 forks on it and completely redesigned the colours/decals...put all his othe best bits on it, it would still be a grifter....
-
if bob haro took a grifter, put gen 1 forks on it and completely redesigned the colours/decals...put all his othe best bits on it, it would still be a grifter....
:LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol: this is fooking ace
-
are you saying greame, that your expert , if unstickered, and that "uk"goose were unstickered, they would be identical? bar the weight?
they are identical. that UK supergoose is a cali or expert frame. the weight will show whether it weighs the same as my chromo expert
that should show whether its a chromo cali or expert.
when you put a cali (or an expert) and a super together, they look like that pic in one of the first posts
i prefer the super, as the BB is lower. makes it nicer to jump (for me). that was the good thing about the super.
these are easy frames to ID !!!!
and were supergoose frames made in the US? and the UK? or all in taiwan?
-
if bob haro took a grifter, put gen 1 forks on it and completely redesigned the colours/decals...put all his othe best bits on it, it would still be a grifter....
it could be a UK gen 1 :)
-
sod the forks....they can be lost, changed....etc
were talkin about a frame id here i think...
The thing is i have an expert from the usa and it says just chromoly Main Frame not rear triangle chromoly as well :D :D :D
and its an 85 model
in that case it would be different.... there a clear diff and it will show in the weight. but if you lost the stickers you should still be able to tell, if you tap a full chromo frame with a spanner, it sounds different from a trimoly.
-
This is the way i thought the uk range worked
Expert, Chromoly main frame, Steel Forks, sh!ty parts
Cali, Chromoly main frame, Steel Forks, better parts
Supergoose, All Tubes Chromoly Frame and Forks, even better parts
All these bikes are the same geomatry and same size tubes
That the way i see it ;) ;) ;)
-
so in that method how would you tell an expert and cali frame....
by that ruling, the name "expert" and "cali" are only applicable when it is a full bike.....
-
and ruler ses he has an all chromo expert.
so there would have to be uk versions of the expert, and the supergoose, and us versions?
-
sod the forks....they can be lost, changed....etc
were talkin about a frame id here i think...
The thing is i have an expert from the usa and it says just chromoly Main Frame not rear triangle chromoly as well :D :D :D
and its an 85 model
mine was from the US too.
experts and calis can be hard to ID if they are naked. there was some subtle differences
even harder if some chump has put the wrong stickers on it ;)
however with the SUPERGOOSE it's easy. fatarse! 3 holes! lower BB! made in taiwan
maybe at the mongoose factory one afternoon it went like this:
"sir we are out of supergoose frames for that UK order"
"ummm, well then just sticker up some calis"
"but sir, they are different frames!!!"
"do as you are told bitch. the english peegs wont notice for at least 23 years"
-
lmfao......i bet thats really how it happened..
-
Fook it , just weigh it and see what we get :LolLolLolLol:
-
so in that method how would you tell an expert and cali frame....
by that ruling, the name "expert" and "cali" are only applicable when it is a full bike.....
Yep thats about the size of it
-
im still laughing at the factory scene......where the fook is the rofl helicopter when u need it
-
and were supergoose frames made in the US? and the UK? or all in taiwan?
don't forget france as well :LolLolLolLol:
-
sod the forks....they can be lost, changed....etc
were talkin about a frame id here i think...
The thing is i have an expert from the usa and it says just chromoly Main Frame not rear triangle chromoly as well :D :D :D
and its an 85 model
mine was from the US too.
experts and calis can be hard to ID if they are naked. there was some subtle differences
even harder if some chump has put the wrong stickers on it ;)
however with the SUPERGOOSE it's easy. fatarse! 3 holes! lower BB! made in taiwan
maybe at the mongoose factory one afternoon it went like this:
"sir we are out of supergoose frames for that UK order"
"ummm, well then just sticker up some calis"
"but sir, they are different frames!!!"
"do as you are told bitch. the english peegs wont notice for at least 23 years"
I have tears rolling down my face, and possibly true either that or we need all the larger rear ends for the fat yanks :LolLolLolLol:
-
Ask winnit 93 what that cali is frame and forks then we will get him to weigh the fooker. My bets is that it says chromoly main frame on the sticker ;) ;)
-
A conundrum indeed... The goose with the twin holes has a rear tri identical to the ProClass. The top and down tubes should be the same diameter on a supergoose III. It was manufactured as an affordable alternative for those that wanted to race at top level but couldn't afford the £399 price tag of the Proclass. I reckon they didnt sell many Pro Classes and ended up using the rear triangles on the Supergooses... Maybe the tubing size switch and brakebridge change had something to do with Ammacos involvement?
I have rustled up these piccys from the Action Bike thrash test... hope they help :daumenhoch:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/9b3f0919.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/e8d17238.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/d26d6efd.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/796b9fa0.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/656d32b3.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/d9993c55.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/d79/funmonster/a1886304.jpg)
-
funmonster
do you have a larger version of that test ?
if so any chance you email it me pls
:daumenhoch:
-
Lookin at the picture of his ass I can't see any holes in the rear brake bridge!!!???
Andy, can you see one in the original mag???
Lee
-
And the name Ammaco mongoose supergoose 3. I would say its a uk supergoose, cheers andy ;) ;)
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dahh crap
stupid ammaco version with a different frame
i will kneel and kiss your ammaco supercaliexpertgoose sword
i will still weigh my expert though, that boasts full chromo taiwan made.
maybe its the same frame
-
Yes at last we have a desision, Get buying those uk ammaco supergoose bikes dude, already got mine :LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol:
-
so the big arse super gooses were US made then?
thats two goose facts i have learned today :)
and my expert frame has just hopped up in value ;)
-
Don't you just love bmx :LolLolLolLol:
-
i will never sell a cali or an expert on ebay again
from now on it's supergoose country
-
Should have mine built up soon dudes, get in :) :) :) :) :) :)
-
Looks like a solid brake bridge to me in the mag although it is difficult to tell for sure... If there was a hole either side i would have expected to see some of Capt Haynes white race pants showing through ;)
-
The rear triangle is thin also ;)
-
so could some one summarise this lot
cos i forgot the plot 3 pages ago
:LolLolLolLol:
-
it says in the test its the "same quality frame but made in taiwan"
what a crock!! its just an expert frame. not even the same geometry.
the uk got hosed.
-
U.K. Ammaco Supergoose. Normal rear triangle, One hole brake bridge, Full Chromoly Frame and Forks 15g lighter than USA version.
USA Supergoose, Large rear pro class type triangle, Three hole brake bridge, Full chromoly Frame and Forks 15g Heavier then U.K bike.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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it says in the test its the "same quality frame but made in taiwan"
what a crock!! its just an expert frame. not even the same geometry.
the uk got hosed.
Not really dude because as far as im aware the expert is chromoly main frame only. The bike you have is a bit of a one off me thinks
-
i will weigh it
its yer uk supergoose. they just took another model from the range and put supergoose stickies on it.
hosed.
-
Not really dude because as far as im aware the expert is chromoly main frame only. The bike you have is a bit of a one off me thinks
better make that 2 off
as i had one as well .........
got an 85 test of the expert that says full chromo as well
odd that despite that fact all the componants were steel
you'd think the cali frame with steel parts would have been cheaper
for them to do, yet the cali came with half decent parts
crazy fools
-
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v603/kdw712/mongoose%20scans/experttest4sml.jpg)
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Not really dude because as far as im aware the expert is chromoly main frame only. The bike you have is a bit of a one off me thinks
better make that 2 off
as i had one as well .........
got an 85 test of the expert that says full chromo as well
odd that despite that fact all the componants were steel
you'd think the cali frame with steel parts would have been cheaper
for them to do, yet the cali came with half decent parts
crazy fools
I'll second that cause I brought the Expert of you and it was all tubes chomo :daumenhoch:
They have a lot to answer for :uglystupid2:
-
was there a "uk" expert?
maybe ammaco sawed the gussets off a viceroy and stickered it up with expert stickers :)
-
no expert was us only (only my understanding not a certified fact (yet) ) ;)
we had the Grand prix instead
mmmmmmm lucky us :LolLolLolLol:
-
Not sure it quiet as simple as that. Anyway the uk bike is 15g lighter that the usa version so as far as i can see they got stiffed. Jump on board dude we have just discoverd a new bike, just like when those people in the desert found those different dino bones. Today is a great day, now lets get collecting them up instead of ripping the fooking stickers of and putting cali decals on. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :Great_Britain: :Great_Britain: :Great_Britain: :Great_Britain:
-
Not sure it quiet as simple as that. Anyway the uk bike is 15g lighter that the usa version so as far as i can see they got stiffed.
the us super has better geometry.
its a different frame to the others.
we got a cali with the wrong stickers and the grand pricks. :(
-
As a hole its still a great bike fella, look on the bright side and get yourself one. Come on you know you want one ;) ;) ;) :) :) :)
-
Are you sure we are not just on some wild Goose chase :D
-
:LolLolLolLol: very funny dude :LolLolLolLol:
-
As a hole its still a great bike fella, look on the bright side and get yourself one. Come on you know you want one ;) ;) ;) :) :) :)
i still think i already have one
and thats why the expert was US only.
i will see what it weighs later on ;)
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Cool ;)
-
ok you got me
i will strip the expert and weigh it.
if it weighs the same as yours i am gonna put supergoose stickers on it and sell it.
it's gonna be lighter than a supergoose, as it has thinner tubes on the back. not much lighter though.
my super is an 83, and my expert is an 84
youll probably get more for the stickers than the ff
-
they'll be repros, and i will mis-spell supergoose
-
so, you weighed it yet?
-
Very interesting topic...
So did the manufacture of the Supergoose move from USA to Taiwan after 83 or did BMX products have 2 plants knocking out the Supergoose frames?
Does any one have a serial number log and if so, do both types of serial number run through 1984?
Could one of those frames be a Cali that was restickered back in the day? after all they did make a full cromo version...
Bren
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man, dont complicate it any further....
-
It's stuff like this that keeps me interested in oldschool bmx... most of the stuff on all the sites is the same old, same old, which is fine, then every now and again someone brings something new(ish) to the table and it's good for everyone involved.
So keep those Q & A coming... I like it :daumenhoch:
Bren :)
-
man, dont complicate it any further....
:LolLolLolLol: i know i can't take anymore :crazy2: :crazy2:
-
here is my expert weighed . . .
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=17208.new#new
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man, dont complicate it any further....
Put it up on vbmx, then your`ll see how complicated it can get >:D
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man, dont complicate it any further....
Put it up on vbmx, then your`ll see how complicated it can get >:D
I can hear the sound of squeaking Sketchers approaching from over the pond as we speak to throw in the old 10 cents worth ;D
-
lol
-
"its ok theyre not mine"
-
its
-after schwinn in 1978 went to taiwan to have their frames made
-mongoose couldn't compete in the usa against them
so they went to taiwan
-all the fat rear tubed frames were still made in chatsworth california, due to the supply of that guage of tubing
-oversized -thats all-they were for the us market
-and therefor cost more than a far eastern frame -due to more expensive manufacture
-all the thin rear ended ones were made in taiwan simple economics - export to europe
it bodes well to think that the high end component specs, were of us origin
-and low end complete bikes -taiwanese
the non loop tailed mongoose grand prix,was possibly made in another factory - probably the falcon pro one, as it would appear that they didn't have the tube bending jig
:LolLolLolLol:
also beware, as if your frame is dated 1988 -maybe earlier, its not even a uk supergoose, but a ' M1'
;D
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v222/pantswagen/IM000158.jpg)
-oh the shame :-[
-
/\ that all maybe lies and made up
-buut i bet the fat rear tube frames are an imperial measurement
-and the others are metric
:LolLolLolLol:
-seems more plausable
-
oh, and i could be said that -1983/4/5/6 thin back end supergeese, are more prevelent than the 1982/3
-maybe saink to do with ids wanting them, after seeing the 1982/83 us built ones ridden by the pros
?
-that makes sense too
:LolLolLolLol:
-supply and demand - and cost -and shipping
-made for bmx products
-shipped to europe from aisa to ammoco -the uk distributor
-
Well thats cleared that up then :daumenhoch:
-
yeah, clear as mud.
-
i wonder if it was just raw frames that came to the uk from taiwan?
-chromed here, assembled with renthals?
-or even if they came chromed, decals put on here
-by ammoco
-
hosed.
-
i wonder if it was just raw frames that came to the uk from taiwan?
-chromed here, assembled with renthals?
-or even if they came chromed, decals put on here
-by ammoco
Ammaco and mongoose had a deal with motobecane in france to make frames etc for europe market
certainly true for the cali and i expect other modeals too - blue max for instance same frame
lower spec parts and sold through halfords
-
In regards to stickers on bikes
the Tange made raleighs came stickered from Japan, as the guy who made all the raleigh stickers for burners told me, and he should know lol
what this has to do with geese is tenuious to say the least
but i felt left out
Rich
-
ammaco should have called the expert the "expert"
rather than tricking people into thinking they had a supergoose.
another great decision for bmx in the uk
bit like when raleigh saw the bmx thang going down in the US, and decided what the UK needs is the "grifter". thanks guys.
-
But from a bussines point of veiw raleigh did Ok out the grifter , got us all to buy one then released the burner , so a load of people bought one of them as well, double bikes all round
Rich
-
:LolLolLolLol:Just thought i would bring this thread back for newer members who would like to know the differancs between a uk and a usa supergoose. The thread is funny as fook but at the time it was not, no it was life or death :LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol: :D :D :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
-
great thread - we learnt a lot :daumenhoch:
-
Great thread, just spent the last hour reading it! :D
I have a 1985 Californian with an enamal headstock badge imported from the US, it has the sticker on the main tube stating full chromo frame and forks. Over Christmas i stripped it back for a bit of a rebuild and can confirm full chromo frame and forks! It also states on the seat tube sticker made in taiwan, i think it is exactly the same as the UK Ammaco Supergoose.
Tomorrow i will take some pictures, just for the record, although as the original stickers were warn and pealing they have been removerd ready to be replaced, ummm Mongoose or Supergoose.......... ;)
-
good luck finding decals to fit it the downtube od is smaller than a regular sg :LolLolLolLol:
-
i think the downtube od is the same
-
from what's been said here it is the same size!
-
Here we go again :LolLolLolLol: i said that maybe a supergoose furry ;) ;)
-
let us not forget the 1980 style ammoco
-with the mongoose circular gusset
-but with the brace between down tube and seat tube
-i had one of them!
-swapped it at old hayes track for bxfr wit cotter pin cranks!!!
-painted it and couldn't wait till the paint hardednned
-it had a nice lois cord effect top tube !!!!!
-anyway -back to the point - clearly the 1980 gusseted mongeese were welded with the funky heliarc nice beads -was the ammaco mongoose with the seat tube plate thing made in the us or elsewhere?
-maybe the ramper was out of chatsworth too
--the gusseted one with the little hole -no 'R'
-and the 1980/81 proburner and rampar are actually tange built under instructions by mongoose
badged as raleigh
the plot is corn starched
-
Great thread, just spent the last hour reading it! :D
I have a 1985 Californian with an enamal headstock badge imported from the US, it has the sticker on the main tube stating full chromo frame and forks. Over Christmas i stripped it back for a bit of a rebuild and can confirm full chromo frame and forks! It also states on the seat tube sticker made in taiwan, i think it is exactly the same as the UK Ammaco Supergoose.
Tomorrow i will take some pictures, just for the record, although as the original stickers were warn and pealing they have been removerd ready to be replaced, ummm Mongoose or Supergoose.......... ;)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1874.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1867.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1865.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1862.jpg)
The sticker under the seat post said Californian Made in Taiwan so the CH in the frame number doesn't mean Chatsworth does it?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1871.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r274/furrys/IMG_1863.jpg)
-
emmmmmmmmmmmm let me think mongoose cali thats my final answer
-
This is a thread that just keeps on giving :LolLolLolLol:
From the headtube badge, I would also say Californian :daumenhoch:
-
Dont get me wrong, i'm sure the bike is a Californian as the original stickers said, i was just interested to find out if it is the same as a UK Supergoose. As far as i am aware 85 was the first year the Californian had full Chromo frame and fork, as did the SG... :)
-
the everlasting thread ::)
its quite likely its the same F&F (assuming forks are chromo not mild steel)
but nothings a given with mongoose
think they were flying by the seat of their pants
bikes made US, taiwan & some in France
bloody minefield
-
So hard to tell :'(
-
but its so much fun
nearly mad as the word association thread - nearly :coolsmiley:
-
Seems strange to me to put the letters CH into a frame number that was made in Taiwan ???when your also making frames in Chatsworth USA, i think it said chromo on the inside of the fork headset :crazy2:
-
Am lookin for a decent Proclass and am now shattin it in case I end up with a supergoose frame decalled up as a Proclass :-\
I can't believe I missed this thread!... :uglystupid2:
The BB is how you tell if it is a PC or not...dead give away. The tubing on a PC is thinner than all other Mongoose models, except for the Rupe Signature model. But there are other specs for the Rupe as well. If you ever consider buying a "Pro Class"...always ask to check out the BB or ask to see a pic of it before purchasing it.
-
can i throw the first spanner in
i have a trimoly frame - californian, and its stamped on the section behind the BB shell ?
Proclass has thinner wall section to its tubes and as such needed top welders and is very lite and dam sexy
it should have larger diameters on down tube and rear stays over cali and expert (and UK supers :coolsmiley:)
generally a 3 hole brake bridge unless its 82 early model - see stidds one
and weigh feck all
the US spec super is identical in looks but not weight 2lbs (ish) heavier due to the regular wall thickness in the tubes
-
so no one ever reclls, gary or wayne lewellyns, extra extra longer supergoose?
-remember seeing it at tolworth 1984
-looked both weird, and cool
-
Am lookin for a decent Proclass and am now shattin it in case I end up with a supergoose frame decalled up as a Proclass :-\
I can't believe I missed this thread!... :uglystupid2:
The BB is how you tell if it is a PC or not...dead give away. The tubing on a PC is thinner than all other Mongoose models, except for the Rupe Signature model. But there are other specs for the Rupe as well. If you ever consider buying a "Pro Class"...always ask to check out the BB or ask to see a pic of it before purchasing it.
Thats why i brought the thread back. There should be a rule when you join rad you must read this thread :LolLolLolLol:
-
Fascinating thread......I have mailed Wayne Llewelyn to see if he can shed any light on all this.
I remember hearing about a Mongoose B.L.E.M - British Limited Edition Model......???????
-
I remember hearing about a Mongoose B.L.E.M - British Limited Edition Model......???????
oh oh
it'll be a zapper with pro class stickers on it ;)
-
:idiot2: :idiot2:
Spent an hour on this thread and have come to the conclusion that the only mongoose I shall consider buying will deffoe have a gusset
:LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol:
-
Its a cluster fook sir :LolLolLolLol:
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for those who are not sure what cro-mo is. it's a alloy of steel,chromium and molybdemum(sp) that that has a higher stiffness and stretch resistance. 4130 and 531 etc are the ratio's of the materials used in the tubing. It is heavier 1"³ for 1"³ than ordinary steel. But due to it's superior strenght and stifness less material needs to be used therefore you can reduce weight. This is why you get thinner tubing. The thinner the wall of the tubing, the bigger the OD of the tube needed(in general for a better bike frame but not an absolute rule). Stainless steel is inherently strong and much stronger than ordinary steel. some grades are super strong. But, compared to chro-mo, it is almost dubble the price for SS. I still think the geometery is what makes the frame. fook with that and you get a different bike. There was no team of experts like a dishwasher powder advert, in white coats making frames. You have one little taiwaneese bloke who has to chop so many tubes of a certain diameter to a certain length and put them on a pallet(this happens for all tubes, some come from the guys on the CNC bending machines, and some from the machine park where they have been machined and drilled, the BB and headtube). that pallet goes to the guy who mills the ends so that they fit snug in the jig. one average semi skilled welder will probably jig the tubes and spot the bits together and put on a pallet. Another bloke who is the tig welder(skilled) will then weld the frames up and put them on a pallet. said pallets go to chromers. They come back chromed, some 3 bucks a week bird on a production line puts her sticker on, then down the line to the next bird who puts her sticker on etc.... they are then packed and shipped with the right components, put in the box by birds on production lines. You can't just use other bits in a jig. It is one bike or the other.
we got hosed.
I and i am sure others on here work in engineering/manufacturing. It is what it is, not a supergoose by design, just a expert with a made up name for a less respected market. noo-noos
we got hosed. and we are still wet.
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I'd heard about this thread, and was warned it would be a long road to travel...so I thought I'd save it for a boring afternoon at work.
I didn't realise just how long that road would be...jeeesus!!! I must have been reading for the best part of an hour! ;D
I feel I have accumulated mass knowledge in a short space of time...a la Total Recall :crazy2:
I have an 85 US imported Cali, full chromoly frmae & forks, with riveted head badge...looks identical to Furry's tbh. Will look up the serial number when I get home.
I don't think it will add anything, but will be nice to be part of such an infamous thread! :daumenhoch: :LolLolLolLol:
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85? with a riveted head badge?
well there you go, you added something
i thought they were stickers after 84!
i figured that was another way to tell the full chromo ones - no rivets
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Cool, the plot thickens...deffo riveted, deffo full cromo F+F and deffo an 85.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y104/davemac1974/P1100018.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y104/davemac1974/P1100022.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y104/davemac1974/P1100019.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y104/davemac1974/P1100021.jpg)
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85? with a riveted head badge?
well there you go, you added something
i thought they were stickers after 84!
i figured that was another way to tell the full chromo ones - no rivets
No, riveted head badges were defo a late thing got one on my 85 USA Expert
(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_0668.jpg)
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maybe i have it the wrong way around!!!
the riveted badges rock though
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They are cool but a bit heavier than a sticker ;)
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my fs 1 has a riveted head tube badge too.
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nice rivets. never seen that before.
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They are cool but a bit heavier than a sticker ;)
I'm not sure the weight difference between rivets or no riverts would have that much of an influence on my riding to be honest!
:LolLolLolLol:
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Quote from: kdw712 on January 11, 2007, 01:10 pm
1983
september 1983 to be precise
wonder when the expert became full chromo must of been 84/85
which leads me to the next question when did the UK spec super goose come out ?
About nov 1984. The way i see it is the cali full cromo frame and forks are all 85-86 so they probs had loads of frames left and decided to upgrade the range in the USA. It was only the usa spec that had full cromo frame and forks calis. The bmx craze was coming to an end and sales were dropping fast so mongoose probs decided to get rid quick. It was not long after when mongoose were taken over then it all went tits up as far as im concerned. The last great bmx they did was the rupe in late 85- 86. All down hill from there
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I must get 3 pms a week asking whats the difference between a cali, supergoose, pro class :LolLolLolLol:
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I must get 3 pms a week asking whats the difference between a cali, supergoose, pro class :LolLolLolLol:
If you want help with the answers jimmy,give me a shout.. :2funny: :LolLolLolLol:
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I must get 3 pms a week asking whats the difference between a cali, supergoose, pro class :LolLolLolLol:
If you want help with the answers jimmy,give me a shout.. :2funny: :LolLolLolLol:
:knuppel2:
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This must be the most talked about thread on Rad and my favourite. :4_17_5:
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think we've learnt a lot from this thread :daumenhoch:
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Guess who sparked him off by sending him the last PM :LolLolLolLol: :daumenhoch:
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There's so many different varients through the years of 82 right upto 88, it a fooking mine field :LolLolLolLol:
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Is it worth putting a guide together and posting it as a sticky? :daumenhoch:
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Is it worth putting a guide together and posting it as a sticky? :daumenhoch:
so long as it's accurate
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Is it worth putting a guide together and posting it as a sticky? :daumenhoch:
so long as it's accurate
I'm sure we can do something,like how to tell if it's afull chromo,which frames are alike,when they where made to etc etc etc.
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Lets make this a sticky :)
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The difference is very noticable and I'm sure most are looking for the U.S. style Supergoose...That thick rear tubing is most excellent.
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Just bought a US supergoose 3 F&F on the back of this old thread !
Great info guys helped me out a lot even after all this time, maybe this thread should be a sticky as mentioned before !
(fat ass tubes, lower BB, three holed bridge - supergoose 3 ..... done) :daumenhoch:
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remember reading this when i first found the site :LolLolLolLol: :D
i got a 84 uk supergoose :4_17_5: lighter than the us version ;)
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Just read the full thread, av i now served my Mongoose/Supergoose time :)
Can i now look at the back end of gooses with a knowing smile ???
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Yeah it was all about looks rather than weight for me - I've always been one for a more exclusive model with a fat ass ;D
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what a great read
wonder what that extra letter C could mean ?
maybe full chromoly ?
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>:( i posted all the tube sizes on my supergoose on ere. its all gone :knuppel2:
a quick summary.. :D all Uk bound (made in usa)supergeese had the fat rear end + 3 hole rear brake bridge. then around 1984 the taiwanese supergoose 3 arrived. stickered the same but with smaller diameter rear end tubes + downtube. ...i think oh and the rear chainstays are almost parallel to the ground=lower BB
(http://pichostonline.com/u/080916/379368d4ba.jpg) (http://pichostonline.com/)
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Could we make this a sticky as somone else wants to know the difference, thanks :'( :-\ ??? ::) :2funny: :idiot2: :knuppel2: :LolLolLolLol:
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Just to add to the confusion of the matter, i have just got this today, i think it maybe a usa supergoose 3 but i would like an expert answer from someone who knows ;D. what about the forks tho. are they original? http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/rickysupertuff/bmx032.jpg
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/rickysupertuff/bmx035.jpg
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/rickysupertuff/bmx036.jpg
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/rickysupertuff/bmx038.jpg
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/rickysupertuff/bmx039-1.jpg
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Just to add to the confusion of the matter, i have just got this today, i think it maybe a usa supergoose 3 but i would like an expert answer from someone who knows ;D. what about the forks tho. are they original?
USA supergoose 3 with incorrect forks :daumenhoch:
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:'( i wasnt hopiong for that answer but thank you anyway.
what stem should this bike have. i have read that it should have an sr , and somewhere else said the pro class stem!
Is the crank correct sugino 1 piece ?
Thanks for your help on this worsening barn find :(
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as john says US spec super with non mongoose forks
Sept 1983 built
it needs - pro class every thing :)
check out www.vintagemongoose.com (http://www.vintagemongoose.com) and
http://www.kdw712.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mongoosescans.html (http://www.kdw712.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mongoosescans.html)
http://www.kdw712.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/scans.html (http://www.kdw712.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/scans.html)
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US Supergoose 3's... :)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/1983SG7.jpg't=1239603601)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/1983SG6.jpg't=1239603741)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/1983SG5.jpg't=1239603788)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/1983SG4.jpg't=1239603821)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/1983SG3.jpg't=1239603853)
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simple case of geometry changes & different tube sizes are most likely to do with strength & rigidity issues. If you change the geometry then you either increase or decrease stresses on certain parts of the frame structure, altering its structural integrity, crucial in Bmx. Back then they wouldn't have had the luxury of sophisticated computer programmes to test stress points etc, so this info would have most likely been obtained from rider feedback. I'm "GUESSING" that there may possibly have been flex issues at the rear end so by increasing the rear triangle tube circumference & diameter (larger tube size but thinner tube wall thickness) they've achieved a stiffer/more rigid rear end (or reduction in flex) without additional weight. Hence why they both weigh the same. Innovation my friend.........or what Bmx'ers would call........"TRICK"!
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Great thread, I bought an US SG3 a while ago so its very informative! God bless the Goose quagmire!
I gotta ask Q that I dont think has been asked yet, what are the distinguishing marks of US SG3 forks? From the original pic on page 1 the only difference to look at I notice is the very tiny extra bit less of tube between the top of the forks and the lip of the steerer tube. Ive outlined it this pic below but is this it?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt134/botophuket/SGforks-1.jpg)
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My chro-mo forks that came with my US SG3 measure (if you hook a tape to the flat where a bearing race would sit) 326mm to the tip of the dropout. The standard cali forks measure 335mm measured the same way and the later lung-i chro-mo ones measure 330mm.
Oh and they're all different weights - hopefully that has helped to confuse you even more :LolLolLolLol:
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Great thread, I bought an US SG3 a while ago so its very informative! God bless the Goose quagmire!
I gotta ask Q that I dont think has been asked yet, what are the distinguishing marks of US SG3 forks? From the original pic on page 1 the only difference to look at I notice is the very tiny extra bit less of tube between the top of the forks and the lip of the steerer tube. Ive outlined it this pic below but is this it?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt134/botophuket/SGforks-1.jpg)
The correct Super forks are on the left... :daumenhoch:.
Trust me.
;)
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Just read all this thread, what an awesome read :4_17_5:
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Im a newbie and I've read it..
Some read...
Am lookin for a decent Proclass and am now shattin it in case I end up with a supergoose frame decalled up as a Proclass :-\
I can't believe I missed this thread!... :uglystupid2:
The BB is how you tell if it is a PC or not...dead give away. The tubing on a PC is thinner than all other Mongoose models, except for the Rupe Signature model. But there are other specs for the Rupe as well. If you ever consider buying a "Pro Class"...always ask to check out the BB or ask to see a pic of it before purchasing it.
Thats why i brought the thread back. There should be a rule when you join rad you must read this thread :LolLolLolLol:
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me too :daumenhoch:
Just read all this thread, what an awesome read :4_17_5:
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Did the ruler ever weigh his Expert :2funny:
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dont think he did mate good reading though :)
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WOW, Jesus, what a thread "wantit"
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To throw a spanner in the works...(UK based)
As a kid 1984 crimbo ish, I had a new BMX, chrome frame and forks, pro class rims, pro class chain ring, mongoose cranks, renthal seat post and bars, black mongoose pads but the frame and forks were stickered up as Ammaco.
It looked exactly like a UK Supergoose but the stickers were not Supergoose/Mongoose. Seem to remember it was £150 in the sale, should have been £300.