RADBMX.CO.UK
BMX General => BMX Chat => Topic started by: RMB76 on April 27, 2010, 04:35 PM
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Hi
Im a new member to forum and recently bought a Hutch Hollywood. I think its pretty amazing, but it seems it has been subject to some scrutiny on this site and questions have been been raised over it's authenticity. I hope I haven't been ripped off, but if I have I think its the greatest fake of all time. What should I be looking for on the frame and the crank?
RMB76
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as Glen said,and also the location of the weep holes(how many) on the rear triangle and do they look like they've been punched or drilled.
Forgot to add,i've got a Hollywood,so can do some direct comparisons for you. Welcome to the site .
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Im being thick I know but how do you add pictures
RB
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photobucket,but you'll have to ask Glen about the tech side of that,i'm fick as sh#t when it come to puters!! i do know you have to copy the IMG code of the pics you've up loaded to P.B. then paste them on here.
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RMB76 heres the previous thread about your bike, looks like the cranks are fake :'(
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=107108.0 (http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=107108.0)
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bit curious about the brake bridge,looks like it's welded on top of the stays as opposed to in the middle of them. Only "HUTCH"'s i've seen like that are the XL24'S ,other than that,possibly a Hutchins frame. RMB76,how thick are the rear dropouts? 1.7 or 4.2mm?
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(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs058.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs056.jpg)
IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs057.jpg[/IMG]
IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs055.jpg[/IMG]
hows that
RB
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the finish on the brake bridge looks very thin,and no evidence of any stamping.... Hutchins??
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the finish on the brake bridge looks very thin,and no evidence of any stamping.... Hutchins??
If you use the tab at the bottom of the pic of the brake bridge to go over to the right I think you can just make out a stamp!!
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the finish on the brake bridge looks very thin,and no evidence of any stamping.... Hutchins??
If you use the tab at the bottom of the pic of the brake bridge to go over to the right I think you can just make out a stamp!!
your right... good eyes!! i thought it was a bit of dirt. ;D
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hope this help you out lads - the two links were missing a bit - here the two other ones for you to check - cheers B ;)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs057.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs055.jpg)
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deffo a stamp
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v716/glenbett/stamp.jpg)
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i can see the stamp. I didn't know the hollywood frames were made in japan, thought they were earlier than that. That one is for sure. Is the serial on the bb? is there a baseball symbol?
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i can see the stamp. I didn't know the hollywood frames were made in taiwan, thought they were earlier than that. That one is for sure. Is the serial on the bb?
can't say i've ever heard of a genuine Hollywood from Taiwan either.
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looking at the side on pic,i see the seat stays meet the rear of the top tube below the centre line so i reckon it's pukka,just curious about that bridge though.
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but the brake bridge is on top of the seat stays and that only happened on the japan made frames.
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i guess this is pending location of serial number and weep hole location/quantity.
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Well thanks for all your input on this subject I am much more confident about the bikes credentials now. Spotting that brake stamp was genius in real life you have to get right up to it as the paint is so thick and obscures the serial number too. The bike has one hole each side on the inside of the rear drop outs. I really dont think the cranks are fake either if they are I would want to find the man who made them and buy five more sets.
RB
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Well thanks for all your input on this subject I am much more confident about the bikes credentials now. Spotting that brake stamp was genius in real life you have to get right up to it as the paint is so thick and obscures the serial number too. The bike has one hole each side on the inside of the rear drop outs. I really dont think the cranks are fake either if they are I would want to find the man who made them and buy five more sets.
RB
so,only two weep holes,no more? then it sounds like the real deal. have you actually located the serial number?
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it's a nice looking bike.. :smitten:
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I have looked but then I can barely see the brake bridge stamp its that faint. I had no idea there was such a community as this, will post pictures of the rest of my collection to see if I have bought any other ringers.
Thanks again.
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we would all love to see em! :daumenhoch:
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try to make the pics a tad smaller :daumenhoch:
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not all Hutches had serial nos.
my Trickstar has no serial number, which would either indicate it was a very early example (its a US one BTW) or it had two rear d/outs without a serial number welded in the factory. I have also heard of Hutch frames with two serial numbers, one on each rear d/out...
shoddy Hutches eh ;D
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RMB...welcome to RAD
you can find a lot of Hutch info here..
http://users.telenet.be/jjrbmx/hutch/HUTCHfactory.html
and about the Hollywood and Mike Miranda here..
http://users.telenet.be/jjrbmx/hutch/MikeMiranda.html
:daumenhoch:
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it's a nice looking bike.. :smitten:
diggin that accurate Turbo seat, whatever the rest is
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not all Hutches had serial nos.
my Trickstar has no serial number, which would either indicate it was a very early example (its a US one BTW) or it had two read d/outs without a serial number welded in the factory. I have also heard of Hutch frames with two serial numbers, one on each read d/out...
shoddy Hutches eh ;D
totally agree!
pics courtsey of JJR bmx.
http://users.telenet.be/jjrbmx/hutch/HutchRareSerial1.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/jjrbmx/hutch/HutchRareSerial2.jpg
or this one,only 30 away from my expert... No 1051405
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Having put the thing upside down and got on my hands and knees looking up towards the light I can make out the last 5 digits of the serial number 50711 i think and its on the inside of the rear non drive drop out.
Bloody hell this has been emontional
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RMB
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Having put the thing upside down and got on my hands and knees looking up towards the light I can make out the last 5 digits of the serial number 50711 i think and its on the inside of the rear non drive drop out.
Bloody hell this has been emontional
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RMB
U.S then,sounds about right,mines 0651218. Do you have a pic of the slot in the seat tube,mine looks like an upside down key hole,which has confuse me a bit.
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I really dont think the cranks are fake either if they are I would want to find the man who made them and buy five more sets.
RB
......... was this the pink hollywood on ebay recently :LolLolLolLol: i may know just that man :-X
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I really dont think the cranks are fake either if they are I would want to find the man who made them and buy five more sets.
RB
......... was this the pink hollywood on ebay recently :LolLolLolLol: i may know just that man :-X
Bobby :)
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postman pat
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fireman sam
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the cranks aren`t original as i know who made them ,ie the person that bike originally came from years ago .
nice bike tho and if happy don`t worry about , just ride it
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postman pat
your best mate :-*
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I suppose the worst thing that could have happened is to find out that your Hollywood was in fact a tarted up Pro Raider, but it clearly isn't. I think I'm right in saying that there were a few dimensional variations of the Hollywood, some of which are identical to the equivalent Pro Racer. This is due to Hutchins quietly turning a number of what was originally Pro Racer framesets into Hollywoods when chrome suddenly fell out of fashion and the craze for pastel colours kicked in. To complicate things even more, Hutch serials follow no pattern whatsoever so there's no way of telling for sure (but 105XXXX serials tend to pop up a lot). However, take comfort in the fact that it's almost certainly a proper US Hollywood, because the serial number is in the right place, the welds look good, the decals and shade of pink look nicely original, and the brake bridge stamp is light which is in fact good - most of the overseas frames tend to have an ugly deep stamp. As far as the cranks are concerned, I would guess they are fake, but if they were the real deal they would be in bits by now. Plus there's some corking parts on it too.
All in all, looks kosher to me except for the Aerospeeds, but they do look to be beautiful fakes... :daumenhoch:
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how can you tell from looking at them ?.
i remember looking at a vdc at one of the epic meets a few years back that had dud aerospeeds on and i could'nt tell till i was told
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As I said here are my other originals/fakes. Thanks for all the comments really appreciate the feedback as my expertise is limited (I can do good endos though). RMB
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs061.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs064.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs060.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs063.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ac222/Hanney39/MBs062.jpg)
and have PK and pro class nearly finished!
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Nice laserlite ;)
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In daylight I can just read the serial number too of the Hutch 1050711 (I think).
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wish the pics were a bit smaller so i could see em without scrolling across :)
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ditto :daumenhoch: you need a 50" plasma to see those pics :D
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When I put the rest of my collection on will make sure they are smaller so no one has to scroll across to see the who thing.
I dont think examining let alone even mentioning this type of minutia of things is too RAD but then what do I know as a new member.
RMB
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Hey RMB, welcome aboard the good ship Rad. Looks like you've found the answer to your question and have a cracking collection to boot :daumenhoch:.
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Cheers Marty
RB
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i love a happy ending :smitten:
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Here you go mate, they're a bloody nightmare to look at when they're that size.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/wow1.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/wow2.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/wow3.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/wow4.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/wow5.jpg)
Nice collection there. :daumenhoch:
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Nice one Andy :daumenhoch:
You look like a loaded newcomer on Rad, RMB, nice bikes
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No worries Arnaud, Things like these need to be seen.
Look forward to seeing the PK and Pro Class.
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very nice rides rm and welcome aboard.
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Nice collection RMB :daumenhoch:
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lovin your kuwy 8)
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yes glen.
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Nice one Andy :daumenhoch:
You look like a loaded newcomer on Rad, RMB, nice bikes
:LolLolLolLol:
Dude looks loaded for sure.. there's a fookin lake and a boat in yer garden fella :daumenhoch:
Nice rides ya have there buddy :daumenhoch:
J
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I agree with Glen, is there anyway to tell. It would be nice to hear something a little more scientific than "yes they are fake mate" especially as it was so easy (with everyone’s help and expert knowledge which I am still really grateful for) to establish the authenticity of the frame and forks.
The bike that they are on is easily the best in my collection and every single part on is Hutch, the stem bars clamp pedals and even the hubs.
And if they are fake how were they made and by whom because I want his number to buy more of them as they are so cool. I have every type of redline flight and none compare in looks or quality to my fakes.
Thanks again for everyone's help and encouraging comments about my bikes.
RMB
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Can of worms now open.....
The original builder of that bike was involved in the faking of aero speeds.
The bike was eventually sold to a Danny Busby down in Sussex.
He had the bike on ebay last october, in the listing the cranks were honestly described as repro aero speeds.
So whether the buyer of the bike bought it off the back of the ebay listing, I don't know. But if he did they were listed as repro.
Bike sells again recently to the above, I guess you were not made aware in the sale they're repro. The old cliche of "repro being fine in the right hands, in the wrong hands someone gets fleeced."
That's all I know of the history of that bike, and not much more than that. I know a bit about aero speeds if you want to know some tell-tale signs.
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i'd be interested to know as well Mark. It's the one Hutch component i've never owned.
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Well.....the ends past the pedal / spindle bosses are more extruded on the originals than fakes. Slighty different shape, more pointy, fakes are more rounded.
The edges / angles are more defined and sharper on originals.
The spindle bosses do not match on fakes, they're not square if you get what I mean. If you put in a spindle with the hexagonal matching on both ends the angle would be slightly off-set from the other. I don't know if the fake spindles were made in such a way to counter-act this.
The thread is supposingly different on the powerdisc bolt in the fakes.
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always nice to know,thanks Mark.
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The spindle bosses do not match on fakes, they're not square if you get what I mean. If you put in a spindle with the hexagonal matching on both ends the angle would be slightly off-set from the other. I don't know if the fake spindles were made in such a way to counter-act this.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v213/mikamagic1/MBs055copy.jpg)
:( Sorry to be writing all this tbh, but this thread was going around in circles.
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I’m not sorry you have been so exacting, half the fun of collecting these things is establishing the provenance and authenticity (the other half is how f$&king cool they look all lined up). However going back to what I said they are fantastic and would gladly buy more.
Also the differences are (if correct) so minor its still debatable I guess, I was expecting that the typeface or something really blatant was the big giveaway.
I notice Hutch are re issuing them in July are these exact copies or do they not match up?
And just so no one thinks I am fed up I bought a lemon I’m really not as you can see from my others bikes they are all of a certain calibre but this one is by far and away the best. I didn't buy it off e bay and gave £1200 for it and would have paid that for the frame bars and stem.
Its a shame stuff doesn't cost what it did when I started collecting I don't suppose anyone would be arsed about the devilish details.
AR seem to love it at the Burner Bash and have sent pics to Mike Miranda who said it was awesome, surely it was worth buying just for that.
RMB
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if i had the cash i would have had it so be please with it , wish i still had my nos hollywood as god know what that would be worth now :(
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I'm glad your enjoying the bike and this has not tainted the pleasure you get from it. You've got your £1200's worth regardless of the cranks authenticity. :daumenhoch:
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Yep 1200 dabs for that is a bargain.
The cranks in question were made a good few years ago, before JDB got hold of the HUTCH name, and he will I am sure make some aerospeeds at some point.
And the question came up at the time, someone at some point will buy them without knowing. Shame they were not marked accordingly.
There are differences that can be seen and the misaligned crank arms are an easy one to spot once you know. but unless you saw the whole episode unfold in about 2003 then you wouldnt know.
As you have said its a crackin bike and you should be pleased with it as its a cracker.
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lovely bike
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While we're at it ...
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/s192/2xchevron/Sanderspeed.jpg)
Takes us back now.... ::)
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;D quality, I haven't seen that in years. Sander - proper fooking head case :idiot2:
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i pedalled the pink hutch around the burnerbash, and never noticed the cranks were misaligned... still rode nice. offers of £700 were made for the cranks so its value all day long at £1200...
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i raced a whole year on a set of Cook Bros cranks before i noticed that the spindle was twisted. AND they were odd lengths,didn't do me any harm. Still achieved south central No 4.
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Sanderspeeds :D
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i pedalled the pink hutch around the burnerbash, and never noticed the cranks were misaligned... still rode nice. offers of £700 were made for the cranks so its value all day long at £1200...
fooking hell! i'd have taken them out then and there and pushed it home ;D
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sander :LolLolLolLol: you wouldn't want to but any NOS jmc or cook bro's off him. Cause if you do, you could get some heat scarring.