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BMX General => BMX Chat => Topic started by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 03:03 PM

Title: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 03:03 PM
Picked this up from a mate this morning

chrome frame - bottom tube is tear drop aero - top tube is round but has a slight oval to top and bottom, strange to describe as it's not oval like some frames and not round completely ?
three hole gusset under plates
brake bridge is round with round brake stay button
on the rear drop outs - one side is stamped CR-MO - other side is T4082363 ?
forks have a tear drop to them - solid bottom with a hole in each leg
stem is a flip loader - don't know if this is correct for bike or what year or make it is ? anyone !
seat is layback with Cr -Mo on the top of it where the seat clamp is
seat post clamp says BMX on it ?

pic's

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15854.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15855.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15858.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15859.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15861.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15862.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15863.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15866.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15867.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15868.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15869.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15870.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15871.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15872.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15873.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15874.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15876.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15875.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15878.jpg)

and i can't work out what the decal would have been ?

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15880.jpg)


cheers B
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: adenough on September 19, 2010, 03:11 PM
Muddy Fox?????
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: THIRSTYKIRSTY on September 19, 2010, 03:23 PM
looks like a generic tange fisheye drop out frame

used by a load of firms
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 19, 2010, 03:44 PM
probably 1984 Akisu    akisu  :D
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/akisu/38861

EDIT:  Hm, not so sure anymore --- the lower backstays look different.
____
another akisu: http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=178373     dropouts very similar. can't see the gusset (if there is one). backstays seem same.
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 07:11 PM
jaymz has done a bit of magic with his computer and recaon the words could be MMACO ?  missing a A at some time ?
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 07:48 PM
second look at the second found Akisu, and it looks a 99% match so far ?
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 19, 2010, 08:22 PM
i'd say 95%  ;D as we haven't found the gusset yet

here's something to read for ya , haven't read it yet myself---- burt seems to be your bike at first glance-----maybe these guy found out what it is   bon appétit ;)
--->http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D27029939


EDIT:  just read it --  most say its shwinn Thrasher---- i tend to believe the last guy more in this case: "akisu", because i seem to remember that the gusset is slighty different in a thrasher, the dropouts even more

96,5%  :D
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 09:33 PM
I can see why they think it might be a schwinn thasher - and why he was told a cycle pro as well - both have a similar look - but i'm mostly think it's gonna be a Akisu 82'

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/cycle_pro/30347

from what i can see of the frame and geometry it's not bad - as most people come to know the name Akisu, as cheaper second rate maker of frames and parts - i think this has a good feel about it and can hold it's own against some of the better makes from 82'

it has nice welds on it - geomitry looks ok - and it's looks are ok and with the different tubing it's cool  8) i will clean it up and see what would work for it with parts  ;)

a big cheers to fischflo  :daumenhoch:

84 Akisu - seem to near match with frame
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/akisu/38034


83 Akisu - forks and frame  are a close match
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/akisu/37470


85  Akisu - brake bridge sems to match
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/akisu/9669

so it seem to be most parts of the above ones  - AKISU 100%

Cheers all  8) B
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 19, 2010, 10:14 PM

boing,  we got it nailed, Mr. Bendycat  :coolsmiley:

proper frame, cool tubing and it's in good nick ....what more need one say, bring er up!   :daumenhoch:



 :yahoo_silent:
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 11:23 PM
BUT - now there's a guy on Museum saying  T4 = TANGE ? 

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15863.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15862.jpg)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 19, 2010, 11:43 PM
yea, Madd Dogg said tange , too :-\ also the T was bugging me aswell . Now whatta we do?  :(

can't you just pay that guy on museum to stop saying that ... ? :D

nah, lets see if we can find a Tange zthat can take it up with our akisu  :yahoo_silent: :smiley6600:

dum di dumm....
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 19, 2010, 11:48 PM
would like it better if it was Tange !   but all the other Akisu bikes on museum seem very similaur with bits of parts ?

could tange make it and Akisu copy it ? could Akisu make it and send it to Tange ? could Akisu send tange the parts to put it together ? has any one seen a serial number like that ? is it like a Tange number ?

my brain is frying ficshflo  ;D :D

anybody out there help as well ?

cheers B  ;) :D :idiot2:
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 20, 2010, 12:36 AM
Is Tange better...?

If you have an account on museum, why don't you ask that akisu guy from the 2nd link i sent --- if his has our kind of gusset. Or our kind of frame#.

Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: Jaymz on September 20, 2010, 08:30 AM
I can see why they think it might be a schwinn thasher - and why he was told a cycle pro as well - both have a similar look - but i'm mostly think it's gonna be a Akisu 82'

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/cycle_pro/30347
Cheers all  8) B

bendy, that cyclepro has macho on the frame. . .so close to mmaco as per my post on RB.com, now that has put a cat amongst my pigeons!!!
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: northern dean on September 20, 2010, 09:50 AM
I think you have a frame and forks made by a company called DRAGON.
I used to ride one these in 1984.
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: bmxbob on September 20, 2010, 10:14 AM
Ammaco Team pro  ???
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 20, 2010, 10:14 AM
tell me more dean  ;)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 20, 2010, 10:20 PM
ficshflo - lee from burnerworld put this pic up and said he had one bitd - but can't remeber if Tange of Akisu ?

only the under gusset is not on

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/aero.jpg)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 20, 2010, 10:42 PM

another cousin http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=640556 this time its got the gusset, but the drops are different  :laugh:

the observation of one guy -'Pretender'- again, if its correct, enforces our conclusion:  "MT, Cyclepro, Norco and a few others had this type of gusset on some of their Akisu frames."   

....apparently it's called  :angel: the 'holy gusset' LOL              oOO  :LolLolLolLol:     
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 20, 2010, 11:21 PM
looking at his it looks like blind monkeys made that  :shocked: mine has a different feel to it - it looks like some one know how to weld a frame

his doesn't have a T on it and the Cr-Mo is different along with the serial stamp, the way it is done ? and check out the poorly done "holy gusset holes" compared to mine ?

looking at them side by side you can see his is badly done and cheap looking ?
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 21, 2010, 01:21 AM
looking at them side by side you can see his is badly done and cheap looking ?
    ....maybe the welder just had a better day on your bike  :P

A) read what alano has to say about that/your kind of brake bridge:
-->http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php'showtopic=27025471&pid=697280&mode=threaded&show=&st=#entry697280
-->http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php'showtopic=27025471&pid=707462&mode=threaded&show=&st=#entry707462
B)            ((........ he seems to be right about this: http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=1491666#p1491666))

C)^^ check out the 'weepholes' in the chainstays by the bottombracket --- ....?.

"D)" http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=2039352   ........ akisu typical welds? Several people say so!

 >:( if it only weren't for that stupid serial#  :10_2_12: In the end, it just may be a Tange afterall -- then again, show me a Tange with a holy gusset LOL ;D

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/stormer/34011   same dropouts?    foxbat, too, seems to have those  :crazy2:

have you asked the 2nd link guy yet?
would also be good to ask lee if he knew for the name of hisa bike (wild shot: aero destroyer? :-X)
"Take the forks off and look at the steerer tube as it may be stamped on there." (retrogeezer)
 :D
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 21, 2010, 01:35 PM
nothing on the fork tube

most evidence points to it being a Akisu

as for the T ?

one thing that i did wonder about is the process at the Akisu factory - if other brands where made there or not ? as some peeps have said they made frames for other companys ?

so if they made frames for a living - did they have a low end and a high end ?  as it seems that some of the frames are badly done and some have seen a bit more love care and attention when being made with a higher spec feel

so i'm going to say AKISU TANGE COPY HIGHER END FRAME

It has parts/geomitry similuar to most of the Akisu found in threads
it has a nice geomitry and a better made feel to it
clean welds
and a overall feel that, if had it not been for a different serial number and a coulpe of bits found out afters searching - that it could have been classified as a Tange made frame

I'm gonna give it a clean and see what it come up like - then work out what parts to build it up like

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/tt183/ELEVENTEENBENDYCAT/BMX/SNC15854.jpg)

A big thank you to Ficshflo for all his work on finding threads and about it
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: Jaymz on September 21, 2010, 05:41 PM
on a side note the stem looks like a Kusuki Hinged stem
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on September 21, 2010, 11:43 PM
all read what scrapload thinks ? now i am confussed  :D
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: RATTY on September 22, 2010, 12:02 AM
Guys, from memory Akisu made loads of frames for lots of different companies, I had one a couple of years ago that looked the same as that, couldnt fault the quality, and Im sure when I made enquiries Akisu was a manufacturer who churned out loads of stuff, mainly for other "manufacturers"
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 22, 2010, 12:03 AM
.... Akisu also made frames for DB, some Burners and I think even Hutch. So can't be that bad....

what you mean, Bendy? You got news?  :LolLolLolLol:

someone shows your bike.....
http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php's=ec3cd39f1eab999ded643b6d7bba321f&showtopic=27029939&st=0  ::)

.... and someone answers "I ave an Akisu Aero Pro with three holes like that." ::)
.... someone else says: "Those things with the three holes in the gusset were made by Taiwanese company Akisu."

ignore the talk  ... just the proximity of the button , the redline style gusset, the stamped drops (ok, the other kind) and the word
http://www.bmx-lounge.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=00006bbb1e3d32ddb697145c3710dae1&topic=4256.msg28125#msg28125
......."AKISU"  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: fischflo on September 22, 2010, 09:00 PM
no need to ask the owner
the 2nd link bike: "aero shark" ......... no gusset  :'(  (too bad, because the backward C in the serial# seems to be an akisu telltale sign) ... dropouts alsó slightly different
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=1731100   ..read post#9 -->LOL!
((anothetr aero shark, just cause the 'prism' decals are so cool    http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=247539&p=1
Anyway... i digress..oopps, gotta go  :smiley6600:


Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: bloud on January 02, 2011, 03:29 PM
I recently picked up one of these here in the U.S. I've never heard of Kosoku or Akisu before this. Pretty sure it's not Akisu, those were Taiwanese made right and different dropouts/welds etc. I have a Flying Rhino (a.k.a Rhino Axeblade) also and the welds are almost exactly the same. This makes me think they are Japan/Tange made? It's also likely different manufacturers purchased the raw "aero" tubing etc. Maybe why there's different drop outs, chain stays etc.

What I am pretty sure of is that mine looks exactly like a Norco Spitfire Turbo with out the head badge. http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/norco/13089 It also looks exactly like the Frame at the beginning of this thread, except mine is missing the under gusset.

Not sure if you ever came to a final conclusion on yours.

Here's mine.

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-007.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-003.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-005.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-009.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-008.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/name-frames-006.jpg)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: BENDYCAT ELEVENTEEN on January 02, 2011, 04:24 PM
Hi there mate  ;) I've not started work on mine

I see that what you say about different company's buying up aero tubing and welding it up to make what they needed for that bmx and geometry

how do your welds compare to mine ?

is your brake bridge like mine close up

would have liked mine to be a tange made frame for some lesser company as one of there top bikes but just can't be sure to say ?

just been looking at the norco bmx and seen one with the bottom brace

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/norco/3658

the norco's look to have a selection of different used parts to make up a frame - like we have seen with the akisu range - so maybe norco bought tubing to make frames for them selfs - any one have any more info on norco and there range of bikes - any mag ads ?


cheers B  ;)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: bloud on January 02, 2011, 04:58 PM
how do your welds compare to mine ?

is your brake bridge like mine close up

would have liked mine to be a tange made frame for some lesser company as one of there top bikes but just can't be sure to say ?

just been looking at the norco bmx and seen one with the bottom brace

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/norco/3658

the norco's look to have a selection of different used parts to make up a frame - like we have seen with the akisu range - so maybe norco bought tubing to make frames for them selfs - any one have any more info on norco and there range of bikes - any mag ads ?


cheers B  ;)

Our brake bridges are the same. My welds match that of Tange quality as I have a Tange Rhino Axeblade (Flying Rhino) and have had other Tange frames in the past. If it is Taiwanese made, then it's quality build.

Norco was just a brand/importer, they didn't actually manufacture. The Norco  and Kosoku are the closest match I have, just the head tube stickers/badge don't match.
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: Rodgy1970 on January 02, 2011, 05:18 PM
I reckon thats another Akisu made frame, as said before in this thread Akisu made frames for loads of brands, if you wanted a frame made because you didn't have manufacturing capabilities you went to them and they made it, to differentiate the frames between the brands they made them slightly different by adding a gusset or using different tubing.  Akisu made Aero Replay/Aero Shark, Falcon Pro, Schwinn and Norco and possibly Haro and Redline.

The frames appear to be pretty good quality and I think the fact loads have survived backs this up.

Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: bloud on January 02, 2011, 05:24 PM
I reckon thats another Akisu made frame, as said before in this thread Akisu made frames for loads of brands, if you wanted a frame made because you didn't have manufacturing capabilities you went to them and they made it, to differentiate the frames between the brands they made them slightly different by adding a gusset or using different tubing.  Akisu made Aero Replay/Aero Shark, Falcon Pro, Schwinn and Norco and possibly Haro and Redline.

The frames appear to be pretty good quality and I think the fact loads have survived backs this up.



I'm sure you are right. Tange did the same thing essentially. Hence all the variations there. I was just hoping to nail down the brand for mine. The Closest match is the Norco and Kosoku thus far, the only differences being the Headbadge and or sticker. I'll choose Norco if I can find a head badge.  :)
Title: Re: frame id ?
Post by: bloud on January 02, 2011, 09:59 PM
Well, the plot thickens a little :P.. I got the forks that were on the frame when found. They are in fact Tange, and exactly the same forks on my Flying Rhino.

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/tange-fork-21-2.jpg)

Some on the Museum came to the conclusion it was Akisu made like Tange. Just for sh!$'s and giggles here are three examples of drop out welds. First, the mystery frame, second Tange and third Akisu. Check out the difference between the mystery frame and an all "Akisu". They mystery frame is like 50/50, Tange on the outside, Akisu on the in.

Mystery Frame
Outside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/unkown-outside-dropout.jpg)
Inside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/unkown-inside-dropout.jpg)

Tange Frame
Outside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/tange-outside-dropout.jpg)
Inside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/tange-inside-dropout.jpg)

Akisu Frame
Outside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/akisu-outside-dropout.jpg)
Inside drop out welds
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/xx76/bloud222/Unkown%20Frames/akisu-inside-dropout.jpg)
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