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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: Superkav on November 18, 2011, 02:15 PM
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I picked up a very good Gen1 copy frame a while back, I originally thought (and hoped) I'd picked up a Torker but alas it's not one of them either. The only visible difference from a Gen1 is that the dropouts don't have a coaster tab and there is no serial. Other than that the frame looks a good length, from memory the top tube is 18.5" from the centre of the headtube to the centre of the seatpost tube. The rake 'looks' right and the 'brace between the top tubes is in the right location and is the right shape. The gusset has the front and back weld with the Gen1 style gap in the middle and the headtube is machined.
What I wanted to know is just how good a copy it is so If somebody wants to share the tech spec of a proper Gen1 I'd be very grateful.
If anyone is worried I'll be using the data to palm this off as a real Gen1 on ebay, never fear :police:. It's not chrome and it would cost me a fortune to get it looking good enough to sell as the real thing. I'm seriously thinking about listing it as a snide tho as if the dimensions are right i think it could go for reasonable money. Failing that I'm tempted to powder it white and rag it at MK. It'll give me a reason to get up there in the winter.
Will put some pics up later just for interest and provide the dimensions to compare. :daumenhoch:
**UPDATE**
I just dug it out of the garage and took some good snaps. there are the remnants of a light blue paintjob on the frame, lighter than a Raleigh Tuff Burner blue if the pics don't show it well. I hadn't unwrapped the forks before as I knew they weren't a match but they've got a brake cable guide on them which goes down the back of the fork as you'll see. Never seen that on forks before so I'd be interested in an ID if anyone recognises them. I also spotted a serial on the left outside dropout which is very faint and doesn't quite show up in the pic or to the eye so being a clever chap I made a rubbing and the serial is T5190692.
Measurements are in the pics as the frame angles. It's a light frame but I doubt it's UK made as i picked it up in California but who knows?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0012.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0010.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0009.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0008.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0007.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0006.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0005.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y268/superkav/DSC_0003.jpg)
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It sounds like a nice rider, but don't advertise it as the real thing...
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There were a few made by Argos cycles in Bristol, if this is one of them it's probably better than the real deal !
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One of my local bike shops had a couple of these frames hanging up from the rafters for a while in the early 90's I'd asked about them and was told they were UK made copies
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I have one that's my rider. I love it. Dom saw it at MK and onlt found two things that seperated it from the real deal, 1. the serial number on the dropout was wrong and the whole in the TT gusset was so very slightly off centre, but mine does have a coaster tab
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285165_10150335486676942_668306941_9335182_1936925_n.jpg)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263274_10150335486421942_668306941_9335180_1085164_n.jpg)
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/223115_10150335487281942_668306941_9335193_6473247_n.jpg)
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There were a few made by Argos cycles in Bristol, if this is one of them it's probably better than the real deal !
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 :LolLolLolLol:
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Any thoughts chaps?
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The Rattlesnake were the closer Gen1 copy frame came in chrome with haro style forks and coaster tab included :)
apart from the serial it was only the headtube/ fork rake that was noticeably different , they made you're vectors look to far back .
So if you had copy vectors on one too , makes a real poo look :crazy2:
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Yep, I've got one too >:D
Rode it off everything :shocked:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/aa149/Spen69/IMG_5404.jpg)
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I have a very good copy one too, the other usual difference that no-one has mentioned yet is that the chain stays meet the bottom bracket higher up than a real gen 1.
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there was a shop in new malden that used to sell copy haro `s back in day so not that un common .
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there was a shop in new malden that used to sell copy haro `s back in day so not that un common .
Yep , definately a good few companies churned out clone Gen 1 freestylers at the time ,
, each version with varying differences
Here's a fake one I had and a real Haro I had at the same time had a few years ago
Look at the first pic and the last pic to tell the difference ;)
Rattlesnake with copy vectors
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/u24/hunterdubber/PICT0005.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/u24/hunterdubber/PICT0006.jpg)
even had the coaster bracket ;)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/u24/hunterdubber/PICT0013.jpg)
and the real deal
Haro freestyler with copy Vectors
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/u24/hunterdubber/SS850049.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/u24/hunterdubber/SS850032.jpg)
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no wonder my redline bars on mine are so far forward, never noticed the headtube angle before !!!!!!
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They look a bit far back on the copy gen 1 hunterdubber.
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They look a bit far back on the copy gen 1 hunterdubber.
That's my point Lucas :)
The copy vectors a not raked forward and are a giveaway sign when mounted next to real vectors
but shown here on a copy Gen1 frame where the headtube angle on the frame is ALSO relaxed back
it shows up alot ::)
I bet some people have bought copy vector bars though not knowing :-\
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I had copy vectors bitd . Thought they were great. Traded them 4 vdc monkey bars :shocked: then traded those 4 a real set :2funny: The difference is stunning 2 b honest . They were the dogs on my MRD expert :coolsmiley: . I am surprised more of these copy haro frames don't turn up . Both the copy bars and f&f's were made local 2 me by Rebel or may be even a company that made the skyway retrofit hubs.
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I don't know brand names of the other Gen1 copy frames
but I thought the Rattlesnake ones are from Germany I read somewhere
What were the ones made near you called Steve
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They look a bit far back on the copy gen 1 hunterdubber.
That's my point Lucas :)
The copy vectors a not raked forward and are a giveaway sign when mounted next to real vectors
but shown here on a copy Gen1 frame where the headtube angle on the frame is ALSO relaxed back
it shows up alot ::)
I bet some people have bought copy vector bars though not knowing :-\
Ohh right, they're nice to be honest, and I bet a few people have been tricked :-\ especially with the bars as they would look fine on a real gen 1
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anyone got a spare im currently looking for one please :daumenhoch:
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I will have a spare frame in a week , as i am waiting delivery . Will let you know .