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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: Mdbh on April 11, 2012, 08:09 AM
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I've got some dx pedals coming not sure on the condition yet, but where cheap!, is it possible to replace the pins if there really worn or missing? Has anybody done this? I've seen a couple of threads on doing resto work but not with changing the pins etc?
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The pins are moulded into the body but i'm sure it's possible and probably has been done before by one of the guys on here?
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The pins are moulded into the body but i'm sure it's possible and probably has been done before by one of the guys on here?
Just had a read of a thred on the museum and there saying there pressed in?
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sounds about right, i'm sure the bodies are pretty soft and it could be done no problem
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I've heard of people using a welding rod to use as the pins, not sure on technique though....
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the pins are seperate and come out if you wiggle them.
if not just drill em out.
i used some cut up rivits to make new pins for mine.
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I've got a silver pair that are pretty scuffed up. Any tips for bringing them up a bit nicer?
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the ends on mine were pretty scratched up so i filed them flat and took care to try and keep the proper curved shape.then sanded them to take the file marks out and painted them.
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I've got a silver pair that are pretty scuffed up. Any tips for bringing them up a bit nicer?
Steel file is best to reshape the ends...
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the pins are seperate and come out if you wiggle them.
if not just drill em out.
i used some cut up rivits to make new pins for mine.
how did you keep the new pins in place?
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i put a blob of that liquid steel glue stuff outta B&Q.
you can sand it from round em after if you put to much in the holes.
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i put a blob of that liquid steel glue stuff outta B&Q.
you can sand it from round em after if you put to much in the holes.
sounds like what I had in mind! Thanks for your help guys!
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Next question, does anybody know what shop I can buy some of that plastikote glass paint from, I'd rather buy it in person then online? Because not sure what colour to go yet?
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you can get the pins off ebay
put in shimano pedal pins and bobs your uncle :)
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you can get the pins off ebay
put in shimano pedal pins and bobs your uncle :)
Think there for the newer dx's?
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i was told in B&Q that most places have stopped selling the glass paint as it was very high in cfc's or whatever it is.
iv'e tried everywhere round sheffield and cant find none :-\.
i was gonna go to a car paint factors and see if they could do me a tin of coloured lacquer to try.
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I cannot find anywhere that sell's it either Dave so I think you are right :daumenhoch:
Best one I've used is the Tamiya Clear Paints
http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalog/tamiyapaintcharts.php
Spray them will a "silver" paint first, Halfords do a pug aluminium that’s good. Yes I know the pedals are aluminium already but it gives a better key and a more uniformed colour.
Leave to dry somewhere warm
Spray on a few LIGHT coats of the Tamiya paint until you get the desired finish.
The Pins are pressed in and I've found it best to remove them with Fencing Pliers and Dordy's idea of cut up rivets is spot on
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I've seen it somewhere but for the life of me I can't remember! There's a few old school hardware shops near me il pop in there and av a look!
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Go some! Plastikote glass paint in blue! Off eBay £5 with postage :daumenhoch:
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i seen the blue.
i need red :'(
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This is a good red alternative to Plasticote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-VHT-ANODIZED-RED-COLOR-COAT-PAINT-SP450-/251028917510?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a727d4d06
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Right got my pedals through today and there going to need the full treatment!, what's the best way to get the old pins out?, I tried grips and the just slip off? Shall I file them flat and then drill them out? Does any body no how deep in the body they go?
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Anybody?
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Have u tried mole grips ? They is best ;) or grip the studs in a vice and pull the pedal off the stud :daumenhoch:
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Most of em are quite low so don't think il beable to pull em out...?
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Side cutters are good for taking them out as you can get a purchase on the pin and lever up against the pedal. If you use a heat gun as well to apply a little bit of heat they normally come out.
You don't want to grind them down as it will make it impossible to get them out. If you try to drill them out the drill will slip off the steel pin and drill out the alloy pedal as it is softer. The pedals will then be ruined. :daumenhoch:
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i used a really small drill bit to get right in the middle of the studs
then went up in size till i had the hole size i needed to put the pins in.
i was using a bench drill holder thing and just took my time.
marked the drill bits too so they never went to far through.
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Got my blue clear plasti-kote from here
http://www.paintsprays.co.uk/catalog/glass-paint-p-246.html
Not used it yet as its slightly blue/green and not true blue. Its a close match for blue anno tho so i may try it today.
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glue on some fruit gums......trick as...!!!!
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Got the paint sorted(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u431/ollyhall1/e5740500.jpg)
I've tried pulling the pins out, and there going nowhere! So I'm gona file them flat and drill them out, rather then using a glue to stick the new pins in I was maybe thinking about braising them?
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Kinda like soldering a joint on copper pipe? Or do you think just a liquid metal type glue would be better?
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I'd go with a two part glue Olly - reckon the brazing would be a right pain in the rear to do and not good steel to ally :)
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I'd go with a two part glue Olly - reckon the brazing would be a right pain in the rear to do and not good steel to ally :)
I was leaning towards the glue Danny but just wanted a proper job but think the glue will be the way to go!
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You can't weld steel to alloy. :daumenhoch:
Alloy melts at a much lower temperature against steel.
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You can't weld steel to alloy. :daumenhoch:
Alloy melts at a much lower temperature against steel.
You sort of can Stu (although not on a DX) - think from memory you have to use a bi-metallic inserts/strips (whch I guess is cheating really) :)
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always good to see Stu saying you can't do something ... then eating his words ;D
to be fair to Stu joining them is basically a form of specialized brazing rather than welding but too fiddly on the peds like Dan says :daumenhoch:
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was tyring to sell mine ive ended up keeping and the in nice condition was only wanting 75 :2funny: :idiot2:
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And I'm not on about welding them together
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Only paid £12 so a bit of work is ok!
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You may be able to chemically join the two. But welding you can't. Not even brazing.
You can join alloy to alloy. And steel to steel. But not alloy to steel. :daumenhoch:
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You may be able to chemically join the two. But welding you can't. Not even brazing.
You can join alloy to alloy. And steel to steel. But not alloy to steel. :daumenhoch:
Hence me saying welding the two is cheating really - bimetallic transition insert/strips (with the two pre-bonded) or the sheathing (alu coat over steel/silver solder).
Neither technically welds one to the other, but in a sort of cheating way does ;)
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You may be able to chemically join the two. But welding you can't. Not even brazing.
You can join alloy to alloy. And steel to steel. But not alloy to steel. :daumenhoch:
Hence me saying welding the two is cheating really - bimetallic transition insert/strips (with the two pre-bonded) or the sheathing (alu coat over steel/silver solder).
Neither technically welds one to the other, but in a sort of cheating way does ;)
blah blah blah blah blah! :LolLolLolLol:
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I quite liked being able to say 'hence' on a forum. Makes me feel like a right tw@t ;D
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I quite liked being able to say 'hence' on a forum. Makes me feel like a right tw@t ;D
:LolLolLolLol:
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:LolLolLolLol: :2funny:
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Anyway let's get bk on track I've cut the pedals in half and I'm going to use a bit of spit and polish to hold them together and for pins I'm gona use jelly beans and some flem to glue them in! :daumenhoch:
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Sounds good to me. :daumenhoch: :Great_Britain:
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Just for the record... as I feel very strongly about this having spent 18 year of my life studying and working in the field... if the question is "Can I weld aluminum to steel with the GMAW or GTAW welding process?" Then the answer is while aluminum can be joined to most other metals relatively easily by adhesive bonding or mechanical fastening, special techniques are required if it is to be arc welded to other metals such as steel. Very brittle intermetallic compounds are formed when metals such as steel, copper, magnesium or titanium are directly arc welded to aluminum. To avoid these brittle compounds, some special techniques have been developed to isolate the other metal from the molten aluminum during the arc welding process. The two most common methods of facilitating arc welding of aluminum to steel are bimetallic transition inserts and coating the dissimilar material prior to welding.
Take for example Bimetallic Transition Inserts. Bimetallic transition materials are available commercially in combinations of aluminum to such other materials as steel, stainless steel and copper. These inserts are best described as sections of material that are comprised of one part aluminum with another material already bonded to the aluminum. The method used for bonding these dissimilar materials together, and thus forming the bimetallic transition, are usually rolling, explosion welding, friction welding, flash welding or hot pressure welding, and not arc welding. The arc welding of these steel aluminum transition inserts can be performed by the normal arc welding methods such as GMAW or GTAW. One side of the insert is welded steel-to-steel and the other aluminum-to-aluminum. Care should be taken to avoid overheating the inserts during welding, which may cause growth of brittle intermetallic compounds at the steel-aluminum interface of the transition insert. It is good practice to perform the aluminum-to-aluminum weld first. In this way, we can provide a larger heat sink when the steel-to-steel welding is performed and help prevent the steel aluminum interface from overheating. The bimetallic transition insert is a popular method of joining aluminum to steel and is often used for producing welded connections of excellent quality within structural applications. Such applications as attaching aluminum deckhouses to steel decks on ships, for tube sheets in heat exchangers that have aluminum tubing with steel or stainless steel tube sheets, and for producing arc welded joints between aluminum and steel pipe lines.
You could also try coating The Dissimilar Material Prior To Welding where a coating can be applied to steel to facilitate its arc welding to aluminum. One method is to coat the steel with aluminum. This is sometimes achieved by dip coating (hot dip aluminizing), or brazing the aluminum to the surface of the steel. Once coated, the steel member can be arc welded to the aluminum member, if care is taken to prevent the arc from impinging on the steel. A technique must be used during welding to direct the arc onto the aluminum member and allow the molten aluminum from the weld pool to flow onto the aluminum coated steel. Another method of joining aluminum to steel involves coating the steel surface with silver solder. The joint is then welded using aluminum filler alloy, taking care not to burn through the barrier layer of silver solder. Neither of these coating type joint methods are typically depended upon for full mechanical strength and are usually used for sealing purposes only.
Now that took ages to type so I hope you got it all :daumenhoch:
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Using a similar technique to the ones discussed by Ed above, I can confirm that this type of bonding works.
The picture below (which is not photoshopped) shows the bonding between two dissimilar mediums: skin and wood. The bonding/welding material you ask? EARWAX.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff443/dannywhack/EaryWeld.jpg)
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Dan.. You pure iz Jedi bredrin!!!
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Dan.. You pure iz Jedi bredrin!!!
;D Power of da force....
All you gotta do afterwards though is remember not to chew the end of the pencil......
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So the conclusion is you can't weld alloy to steel unless you have a chemical coating! That's what I said. :daumenhoch:
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So the conclusion is you can't weld alloy to steel unless you have a chemical coating! That's what I said. :daumenhoch:
You have to use the word 'hence' if anyone's going to reply seriously in this thread ;D
(I bet Olly's loving this derailing - sorry Olly).
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Just for the record... as I feel very strongly about this having spent 18 year of my life studying and working in the field... if the question is "Can I weld aluminum to steel with the GMAW or GTAW welding process?" Then the answer is while aluminum can be joined to most other metals relatively easily by adhesive bonding or mechanical fastening, special techniques are required if it is to be arc welded to other metals such as steel. Very brittle intermetallic compounds are formed when metals such as steel, copper, magnesium or titanium are directly arc welded to aluminum. To avoid these brittle compounds, some special techniques have been developed to isolate the other metal from the molten aluminum during the arc welding process. The two most common methods of facilitating arc welding of aluminum to steel are bimetallic transition inserts and coating the dissimilar material prior to welding.
Take for example Bimetallic Transition Inserts. Bimetallic transition materials are available commercially in combinations of aluminum to such other materials as steel, stainless steel and copper. These inserts are best described as sections of material that are comprised of one part aluminum with another material already bonded to the aluminum. The method used for bonding these dissimilar materials together, and thus forming the bimetallic transition, are usually rolling, explosion welding, friction welding, flash welding or hot pressure welding, and not arc welding. The arc welding of these steel aluminum transition inserts can be performed by the normal arc welding methods such as GMAW or GTAW. One side of the insert is welded steel-to-steel and the other aluminum-to-aluminum. Care should be taken to avoid overheating the inserts during welding, which may cause growth of brittle intermetallic compounds at the steel-aluminum interface of the transition insert. It is good practice to perform the aluminum-to-aluminum weld first. In this way, we can provide a larger heat sink when the steel-to-steel welding is performed and help prevent the steel aluminum interface from overheating. The bimetallic transition insert is a popular method of joining aluminum to steel and is often used for producing welded connections of excellent quality within structural applications. Such applications as attaching aluminum deckhouses to steel decks on ships, for tube sheets in heat exchangers that have aluminum tubing with steel or stainless steel tube sheets, and for producing arc welded joints between aluminum and steel pipe lines.
You could also try coating The Dissimilar Material Prior To Welding where a coating can be applied to steel to facilitate its arc welding to aluminum. One method is to coat the steel with aluminum. This is sometimes achieved by dip coating (hot dip aluminizing), or brazing the aluminum to the surface of the steel. Once coated, the steel member can be arc welded to the aluminum member, if care is taken to prevent the arc from impinging on the steel. A technique must be used during welding to direct the arc onto the aluminum member and allow the molten aluminum from the weld pool to flow onto the aluminum coated steel. Another method of joining aluminum to steel involves coating the steel surface with silver solder. The joint is then welded using aluminum filler alloy, taking care not to burn through the barrier layer of silver solder. Neither of these coating type joint methods are typically depended upon for full mechanical strength and are usually used for sealing purposes only.
Now that took ages to type so I hope you got it all :daumenhoch:
Edd I'm not gona lie I've not read this I lost interest after the 1st 2 lines!, so I'm gone glue them back together with s$$$k lol is that ok to say that with the dollar sign or not? You said not to swear, anyway I might just sling these pedals in the bin coz it feels like ba$$ ache doing resto work!!:)
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Olly I can't believe you said gentlemans relish!! ??? :-X :police: :LolLolLolLol:
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Olly I can't believe you said gentlemans relish!! ??? :-X :police: :LolLolLolLol:
I didn't I said s$$$k you made your own mind up :LolLolLolLol:
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dont sling em in the bin, bring em to me!!!
i can remove the pins, i clamped the pins in mine in my model vice then tapped the pedal out of the pin then replaced the pin with one out of another pedal
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dont sling em in the bin, bring em to me!!!
i can remove the pins, i clamped the pins in mine in my model vice then tapped the pedal out of the pin then replaced the pin with one out of another pedal
you got 15 pins I can have Kev? Il let you touch my bum again!
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lol all i did was remove the non allen key pins out of a dmr v8 pedal and used those
i think you will find you were placing your bum on my hand!
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Well that was a great read ;D one picture of a hand and pencil - bums being touched
right get back on track as i have a couple of sets that need doing and i want to know how they turn out ;D
so Hence get on with it :knuppel2:
and get some pic's up - it's like Stevie wonder story time here ;D
What is best for getting the last bits of paint off of the pedals - was it oven pride, and keeping an eye on it as it will melt them if not careful ?
I want to see the effect of the glass paint and how it looks - i know that you do get a build up around the pins !
cheers B :angel:
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olly the other option is to remove a pin and take it cp fastenings and see if they can find anything to match it, try asking them for engineering roll pins
also have a look on vintagebmx.com for a guy called ted carl, he done a full dx resto, removed the pins, mirror polished the bodys and fitted new pins etc... very in depth guide on how to do it, i used it when i did my resto
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bendy, to remove the last bits of paint use a dremel :daumenhoch:
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Kev can oven pride be used at all on them ? - not talking of leaving them in for long as i know it works about 2-10 mins in !
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Enough about pins for a moment. Does anyone have any of the re-pop end caps? My pedals are OK but the end caps are mashed where I took them out to swap the spindles round for LHD :crazy2:
Better still, does anyone have any used, but OK end caps? A brand new set would look a bit out of place on my used bodys
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no there not anno, paint stripper and a dremel will do the job :daumenhoch:
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alex pm rakas or joe on here, to give em the worn look, rough em up on a brick wall and smear a bit of dirt and grease on em and wipe off :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
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You can't weld steel to alloy. :daumenhoch:
Alloy melts at a much lower temperature against steel.
Nope.. you said "You can't weld steel to alloy" and you can :laugh:
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Enough about pins for a moment. Does anyone have any of the re-pop end caps? My pedals are OK but the end caps are mashed where I took them out to swap the spindles round for LHD :crazy2:
Better still, does anyone have any used, but OK end caps? A brand new set would look a bit out of place on my used bodys
might be able to help you there Alex as I need a pukka new pair for my DX so can flow you the others I have if you thought they were good enough... will do a pic :daumenhoch:
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might be able to help you there Alex as I need a pukka new pair for my DX so can flow you the others I have if you thought they were good enough... will do a pic :daumenhoch:
I like the sound of that, thanks. :daumenhoch:
Im sure we can work out some kind of a swap ;)
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alex - will pm ya a pic in a sec :)
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Mine are on there way from joe £15 shipped!
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You can't weld steel to alloy. :daumenhoch:
Alloy melts at a much lower temperature against steel.
Nope.. you said "You can't weld steel to alloy" and you can :laugh:
Don't think stu has smelt kevs breath, that could weld anything together! :LolLolLolLol:
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:LolLolLolLol:
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olly the other option is to remove a pin and take it cp fastenings and see if they can find anything to match it, try asking them for engineering roll pins
also have a look on vintagebmx.com for a guy called ted carl, he done a full dx resto, removed the pins, mirror polished the bodys and fitted new pins etc... very in depth guide on how to do it, i used it when i did my resto
Link please Kev?
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you aint gonna win stu so give up man ;D ;D
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Can somone make this a stickie please ithink it would help any body out who wants to restore dx pedals :LolLolLolLol:
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after the bad breath comment you got no chance!!! :LolLolLolLol:
www.vintagebmx.com you need to look for a dx restoration thread by ted carl
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glue some shoes on the pedals..............no need for studs then son.....!!!!!!
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i need some end caps was gonna get some from mr harris but i didnt get round it it, do anyone know were to get some from....??????
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Yeh on top of my microwave!
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swap you for some fruit gums....................
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got a red 1/2 inch pair ... anyone wanna swap for black powdered, silver powdered or polished pair in either thread size.
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I gave up and sold mine lol, on the look for a mintish pair that need minor resto!
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got a red 1/2 inch pair ... anyone wanna swap for black powdered, silver powdered or polished pair in either thread size.
Might be interested Edwina, pm me......
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Fcuk about.....
I can't be arsed to read all that bollocks. The pins can be yanks out with molegrips or similar (vice, whatever). You can make your own utilising bar from a model shop. Super glue them in unless your're looking for that concours deal and you want to see the knurling of the originals. Job done.
If it's all gone tits up for whatever reason, file what's left flat and they can be drilled (carefully). You can afford to go up slightly in the diameter of the new ones if needs be.
Finally, I'll have a root around in my goody box tomorrow but I'm pretty sure I have some original DX pins taken from an old set of pedals a while back. If so, they're available to anyone who needs some.
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ive just gave some gold dx pedals to my cousin with all the studs intact, cant be bothered with all this pedal restore game.............olly good luck with them things
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Just for the record... as I feel very strongly about this having spent 18 year of my life studying and working in the field... if the question is "Can I weld aluminum to steel with the GMAW or GTAW welding process?" Then the answer is while aluminum can be joined to most other metals relatively easily by adhesive bonding or mechanical fastening, special techniques are required if it is to be arc welded to other metals such as steel. Very brittle intermetallic compounds are formed when metals such as steel, copper, magnesium or titanium are directly arc welded to aluminum. To avoid these brittle compounds, some special techniques have been developed to isolate the other metal from the molten aluminum during the arc welding process. The two most common methods of facilitating arc welding of aluminum to steel are bimetallic transition inserts and coating the dissimilar material prior to welding.
Take for example Bimetallic Transition Inserts. Bimetallic transition materials are available commercially in combinations of aluminum to such other materials as steel, stainless steel and copper. These inserts are best described as sections of material that are comprised of one part aluminum with another material already bonded to the aluminum. The method used for bonding these dissimilar materials together, and thus forming the bimetallic transition, are usually rolling, explosion welding, friction welding, flash welding or hot pressure welding, and not arc welding. The arc welding of these steel aluminum transition inserts can be performed by the normal arc welding methods such as GMAW or GTAW. One side of the insert is welded steel-to-steel and the other aluminum-to-aluminum. Care should be taken to avoid overheating the inserts during welding, which may cause growth of brittle intermetallic compounds at the steel-aluminum interface of the transition insert. It is good practice to perform the aluminum-to-aluminum weld first. In this way, we can provide a larger heat sink when the steel-to-steel welding is performed and help prevent the steel aluminum interface from overheating. The bimetallic transition insert is a popular method of joining aluminum to steel and is often used for producing welded connections of excellent quality within structural applications. Such applications as attaching aluminum deckhouses to steel decks on ships, for tube sheets in heat exchangers that have aluminum tubing with steel or stainless steel tube sheets, and for producing arc welded joints between aluminum and steel pipe lines.
You could also try coating The Dissimilar Material Prior To Welding where a coating can be applied to steel to facilitate its arc welding to aluminum. One method is to coat the steel with aluminum. This is sometimes achieved by dip coating (hot dip aluminizing), or brazing the aluminum to the surface of the steel. Once coated, the steel member can be arc welded to the aluminum member, if care is taken to prevent the arc from impinging on the steel. A technique must be used during welding to direct the arc onto the aluminum member and allow the molten aluminum from the weld pool to flow onto the aluminum coated steel. Another method of joining aluminum to steel involves coating the steel surface with silver solder. The joint is then welded using aluminum filler alloy, taking care not to burn through the barrier layer of silver solder. Neither of these coating type joint methods are typically depended upon for full mechanical strength and are usually used for sealing purposes only.
Now that took ages to type so I hope you got it all :daumenhoch:
Wow Ed I didn't know you were such a competent metallurgist