RADBMX.CO.UK
Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: stevepeanut on March 02, 2013, 11:12 PM
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I rode my new build today, for all of 5 meters, and my chain started spinning the rear chainwheel around but I got no drive to the rear wheel. I took the rear whee to a local cycle shop and asked for a new freewheel. 5 minutes later they came back and said, it does not have a freewheel its a cassette type, and he mentioned the parts to repair it have probaby never been available since the wheels were made.
Does anyone know if its possible for a repair on this, or should I look for a new pair of wheels?
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has the clip that holds it on fell off.
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you mean coaster brake ? bike shops know fook all. get some pics up !
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If it's a new new stylee one with an actual modern cassette hub (9tooth ish), then chances are it's over greased.
Cassette hubs need to be spotlessly clean with just a couple of drops of light oil in there - that's why all new school bikes are so fcuking noisy....
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The big circlip is still in place, I have no idea if this is a coaster brake, I don't think it is (but can't be certain), it doesn't have a bit of metal hanging off to bolt to the frame like coaster brakes that I have seen.
The wheels are a pair of alloy hubbed tuff 2s, I will put a pic up in the morning.
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Ah, right.
In that case, I'd pop that clip off and inspect the cog. It's not unknown for the three small lugs to self destruct, therefore losing drive.
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Maybe completely wrong but has the spring snapped allowing the pawls to collapse meaning it'll spin without drive ?
My local bike shop looked at me weird when I took some old school mags in too I only wanted axles and I got all the talk of no longer made bits available lol
Good job for sites like this I suppose
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exactly what i mean.. tools
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I will see if I can get that clip off and take a look. The fault is intermittant, it will ride for a few meters, then slip, then work, then slip.
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put a pic up steve
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I have took a few pictures to show the rear wheel hub. Heres a pic so the type can been seen.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070180_zpsb735a565.jpg)
I have managed to remove the big circlip and remove the rear sprocket.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070183_zps81153ee6.jpg)
This last pic shows the hub with the sprocket removed. If I spin the top part of the hub while pushing down into the wheel, it locks solid as it would when working correctly. If I spin it while pulling it away from the wheel it slips and jumps, this is whats happening when its being ridden. How do I strip the hub past this point? I can't see any thing else that screws or and more clips to remove. I tried to gently prise it off the wheel but it seems to be held in place, I don't want to try prising any harder unless this is the correct way to remove it.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070184_zps0ec1f012.jpg)
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i'm not familiar with that hub but it looks like a coaster to me, have you tried unscrewing it? see if it turns anti-clockwise to remove the drive and clutch.
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i'm not familiar with that hub but it looks like a coaster to me, have you tried unscrewing it? see if it turns anti-clockwise to remove the drive and clutch.
Spinning anti clockwise is doing the same as when the bike freewheels, it just goes round forever clicking.
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That's a cassette drive hub bro. Put a pic up of the other side of the hub. I'm not sure how these are put together but some are pressed in place over the bearings and ratchets, some feed though the hub centre and are secured on the opposite side :daumenhoch:
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it should be possible to release the whole mechanism by loosening/removing the cone nut on the other side !
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This is the other side, I have tried turning it with a wrench and tried pulling it outwards with pliers, seems to be locked in somehow very tightly
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070187_zpsdc1a601d.jpg)
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thats prob supposed to be stationary and its the axle that turns.. :-\
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thats prob supposed to be stationary and its the axle that turns.. :-\
yes I think that is never going to move, it looks like its been pressed into the hub, somehow the otherside that spins must come apart
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Try not to turn the reverse side buddy, it will not move. Your cassette drive is pressed on I think. There are 2 small holes I see on the pic of the cassette hub, grease holes. I'm not sure but yo may be able to release the cassette like a car stereo with those holes. Use 2 centre punches in the holes and move it round slowly. It might release the cassette.
I will try and find a diagram later tonight as have got work soon >:(
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Actually, thinking on it, I think you need a special tool that mounts in those holes and you turn it clockwise while holding the cassette. It looks like an ACS freecoaster bolt when it comes out :)
Wipe all the grease off and take a top shot bro :coolsmiley:
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It looks like a sun tour cassette hub , I have one somewhere I will have to dig it out to remind me how it goes together. Mine has a welded sprocket on it so its no use but could be good for spares.
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Actually, thinking on it, I think you need a special tool that mounts in those holes and you turn it clockwise while holding the cassette. It looks like an ACS freecoaster bolt when it comes out :)
Wipe all the grease off and take a top shot bro :coolsmiley:
Right I am with you, these are not holes that go right through when looked at close up, they are just 2 sort of half drilled holes, looks like it would need a tool to move it, similar to some freewheels, I will try and drift it round.
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They are like this bro :daumenhoch:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143623_zps485e2719.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143615_zps8dd4ca61.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143553_zps4d824b12.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143538_zpsbe16d592.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143527_zps47b3f973.jpg)
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From that diagram and part, is it a left or right hand thread?
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The ACS does up clockwise as it doesn't affect the drive or cones.
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I have tried drifting out the bearing cover with the 2 holes, both clock wise and anti clockwise, it does not move at all. Stuck now.
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I'm pretty sure that's how it comes out. It will be well fixed in there after all these years :-\
I have to shoot to work now bro, sorry :(
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I'm pretty sure that's how it comes out. It will be well fixed in there after all these years :-\
I have to shoot to work now bro, sorry :(
cheers for your help mate
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They are like this bro :daumenhoch:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143623_zps485e2719.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143615_zps8dd4ca61.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143553_zps4d824b12.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143538_zpsbe16d592.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/2013-03-03143527_zps47b3f973.jpg)
I don't think this is right , any chance of a picture of inside the wheel hub area. It doesn't look like the hub is big enough to hold the coaster innards. The pictures are of a ACS free coaster modification. If you look at your hub where the sprocket goes on it has 6 or 7 splines. A coaster will typically have 3. Take care with knocking things about. I can't find mine unfortunately. With a picture of inside the hub i t might tell us a bit more
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bof, I have just looked inside the wheel, there is a 12 mm or so tube that runs from one side to the other, just big enough for the axle to run through. The bit I cant remove is on the outside of the wheel.
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looks like the only thing wrong is the teeth/lugs have worn out on the cog, don't bash the cassette bit about you'll probs struggle to get parts, shimano hubs from early 80's had a similar cassette dx hubs should just be a case of finding a drive cog that fits with the least amount of play as possible , maybe try road bike shops, one of the mutispeed gears should fit, don't let em fob you off with "you won't get owt to fit that" and tell em your not bonkers and you know it were made years ago :LolLolLolLol:
looks like one of these a few pics down :daumenhoch: don't destroy it not many about :daumenhoch:
worst case if you can't source a new cog ( probs be from the US ) assuming the cassette is working ok, you can have the cog welded to the cassette , skilled welder can do it quick enough to stop any heat problems, have seen the shimano ones welded like this , the spring clip that holds the cog on were shite like on a coaster just work loose, then the cog strips out like yours, used to weld my coaster cogs on before even using em :daumenhoch:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=187471
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looks like the only thing wrong is the teeth/lugs have worn out on the cog, don't bash the cassette bit about you'll probs struggle to get parts, shimano hubs from early 80's had a similar cassette dx hubs? should just be a case of finding a drive cog that fits with the least amount of play as possible , maybe try road bike shops, one of the mutispeed gears should fit, don't let em fob you off with "you won't get owt to fit that" and tell em your not bonkers and you know it were made years ago :LolLolLolLol:
looks like one of these a few pics down :daumenhoch: don't destroy it not many about :daumenhoch:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=187471
Pic from your link looks just like mine
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r189/jjvh66/Parts%20Guide/Skywaycasshub.jpg)
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edited my post :daumenhoch: twice and this one :LolLolLolLol:
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edited my post :daumenhoch:
I have learned some interesting things from your link, my wheels are '79-'81 tuff 2s buy the looks of it. I really wanted to keep early alloy hubbed tuffs on my Haro, but from your article, skyway changed to the sealed bearings in 1985. My Haro is 1988, so the sealed bearing type is era correct for my bike. If I can't fix it I will sell them on and buy some other ones, if I could get a whole suntour coaster set up with hubs that would also be an option.
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cool always good to learn something new :daumenhoch:, i hate to say it but the museum is always a good place to look for the more obscure bits :daumenhoch:
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Looking on USA ebay, and theres very little on there
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there was not many cassette hubs about back then , maybe look for Shimano parts they had 8 slots , got a set from 84 , there are still some sets come up for sale,
these are 84 Shimano very similar, busted but still work, quality :daumenhoch:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff98/jimjdld/bmx/1-3.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff98/jimjdld/bmx/2-1.jpg)
think ACS did a cassette hub, not sure on lug layout, unsure if bendix, shimano coaster cogs will fit they had 3 lugs
Odessey do a hazzard hubb with a cassette and a few different size cogs don't know the lug position on em never seen one but , worth seeing if they fit maybe ?
in general i gues i'm saying i'm not sure ................ :LolLolLolLol:
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best bet is change the hub to a sprocket type by drilling out the old one.(if you can find one) we used to do that to put on complete coaster hubs
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Starting to think about putting these up for sale as spares/repairs, if I could find parts to use to convert it I might have a go, but there seems to be nothing on ebay uk or usa and it maybe getting beyond my mechanical capabilites unless someone could explain it step by step.
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(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/h10/fish116/suntourhub004.jpg)
Sun tour hub picture
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that looks similar, but I still cant figure out how to get mine apart
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The first steel hub Skyway Tuff lls had these cassette hubs, you can get replacements, or as I have done in the past, fit a Suntour coaster, the body is the same as the coaster shells :daumenhoch:
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Here is mine stripped..may help
Not sure if mine is exactly the same as yours but here goes...
Both sides.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8527012961_ea0b9b8f08_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8391/8527013299_c99f069d23_c.jpg)
If you take the left side apart the cog doesnt need to come off.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8528130814_53985f860d_c.jpg)
This is the only item that showed any wear.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8527015435_ba6085e7f6_c.jpg)
Otherside is then released.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8106/8528128500_da3fb49f06_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8108/8528128842_b032599862_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8527014525_09abaeb159_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8087/8528128154_8b3e9538bc_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8098/8528129424_44b4afcea5_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8527015873_25eb918f6d_c.jpg)
When you pedal forward the threads on the ooojit push the thingy in to get drive,obviously a little magic happens and elves and fairies are invloved.. :2funny:
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Wazza this is the same reply as on RB but put it on here too, might help other people who are stuck
Wazza, many thanks for going to the effort of stripping yours, but unfortunately mine is not the same.
I removed the axle, mine came out similar to the front wheel. Slid out the axle and nothing else moved. Here is the non sprocket side. The bearings sit in this area. This "cup" appears to be pressed into the star shaped hub. There's no way its moving or coming out.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070187_zpsdc1a601d.jpg)
Next the sprocket side, above the sprocket, yours has 3 notches I think (cant see the rear), mine has 8.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070180_zpsb735a565.jpg)
Circlip removed and the sprocket lines up with the notches and slides out.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070183_zps81153ee6.jpg)
This is what I am left with. There are 2 small hole marks. This looks like if its turned, it should come off, there are tiny bearings under it. I cant tried turning it left and right and it will not move. I don't know if its a normal thread of left hand thread but either way it will not move at all. Even if this bearing cover did come off I am not sure how I can remove the outer hub.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/hub_zps0922c2e6.jpg)
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here is your answer. :daumenhoch:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=255792
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here is your answer. :daumenhoch:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=255792
Thanks Stu, so it is as someone mentioned, a left hand thread. So if I can get that to come off the whole thing should come apart. Its going to take some moving though, its been on there over 30 years by the looks of it.
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This is probably the correct tool for the job. Won't be cheap though..
(http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Full/17508.jpg)
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Big thanks to DiscoStu for finding that link.
I held a lighter on the locking ring for ages to get some heat into the ring, and it drifted out no problem.
This is whats left on the hub. I am pretty sure this last bit is pressed into the 5 star hub bit.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070194_zpsb44c9461.jpg)
These are the parts that have came off when it came undone.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070191_zpsba3a1ef5.jpg)
And this is what is playing up, two little tabs that must close when freewheeling and open up to lock the freewheel.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/cc202/stevepeanut/P1070193_zpsf1c08c22.jpg)
I can't see anything thats an obvious cause of failure, I am thinking possibly the little tabs are not opening out because they are caked in thick dirty grease.
I am going to reassemble it tomorrow, I will grease up the bearings tomorrow. Can anyone tell me what kind of grease or oil I should be using on the tabs?
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:) The 2 little tabs are called pawls.Use a very light oil and you should be fine.
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GLAD YOU GOT IT APART. I ALWAYS STRIP, CLEAN, RE GREASE , REBUILD THIS STUFF EVEN IF ITS NEW (OFTEN THE WORSE ADJUSTMENTS AND CRAP STORAGE GREASE)
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The teeth inside the cassette look worn. I'd check them out before assemble, because it could be a case that the pawls dont catch on em how they should. Clean off any burrs on the inside with a file and restructure.
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The teeth inside the cassette look worn. I'd check them out before assemble, because it could be a case that the pawls dont catch on em how they should. Clean off any burrs on the inside with a file and restructure.
that might make sense, cos it grips then slips, over and over again
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before i knew of this site i sold a complete suntour coaster inners on ebay.......for 99p!!! gutted now mate as you could have had it, would have fitted right in :'(
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before i knew of this site i sold a complete suntour coaster inners on ebay.......for 99p!!! gutted now mate as you could have had it, would have fitted right in :'(
its like that sometimes, when I used to mess around with old suzukis, someone figured out the clutch baskets off one engine fitted another to make the clutch better, I told a bike breaker and he had thrown a pile of them in the bin
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The teeth inside the cassette look worn. I'd check them out before assemble, because it could be a case that the pawls dont catch on em how they should. Clean off any burrs on the inside with a file and restructure.
Just got the cassette and had a proper look at the bit you mentioned. They are very worn indeed, the teeth look like they have big marks and chips in them. Still unsure what to do, I would imagine that if I strip and rebuild it, it might work, but for how long? This bike was built purely to ride at the meets up and down the country, and it would be a bad situation if I took it far to a meet and it failed on me again. I know someone who has a alloy hub skyway wheel with the screw on freewheel set up, so getting that and putting it into my wheel might be the best option.
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if its just the sprocket thats slipping, have it welded on?
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im still looking for mine. I had it on my desk at work for years. But lost my job last year and packed everything up sharpish. If i find it you can have it. The pawls are brand new. I will keep in touch. Got a few boxes to go through. I will let you know if i find it.
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Long shot here. Know anyone with a welder? Weld spots onto the worn parts and have some fun filing it back to shape. Have a go with a file first to re structure them.
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if its just the sprocket thats slipping, have it welded on?
its not the sprocket thats slipping, the pawls are not engaging into the cassette properly, I think now due to it being full of crud, and both the pawls and mainly the cassette being worn out
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Just out curiosity, is the hub a Suntour made hub??
Could you not find an old used spoked Suntour cassette hub and strip it down for the cassette and pawls??
Worth a suggestion :daumenhoch:
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im still looking for mine. I had it on my desk at work for years. But lost my job last year and packed everything up sharpish. If i find it you can have it. The pawls are brand new. I will keep in touch. Got a few boxes to go through. I will let you know if i find it.
cheers mate that would be ace if you could find that
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Just out curiosity, is the hub a Suntour made hub??
Could you not find an old used spoked Suntour cassette hub and strip it down for the cassette and pawls??
Worth a suggestion :daumenhoch:
That would work I think, it looks identical to the spoked one bof put up, not 100% sure if its suntour on mine, I shall take another look and see if it is
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I have got a temporary solution, I have bought a spare wheel from a lad on ebay, messaged him back and forth and asked for pics, and ended up having some good chats about bmxs and he even dropped the price for me so I can fix my bike, this is what I bought. I am going to rebuild this hub into my wheel, and just run a freewheel for now. It might even end up a permanent solution, don't see why not
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/andyt68/IMG_0413_zps8bdfab53.jpg)
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seems a shame to have to drill your rivets out.
if you do, maker sure you drill the right end, or you'll risk cracking the wheels.
Drill the heads of the rivet, not the bit that is pressed (riveted) over, reason being, when they stamp the rivets over, not only does the metal form the new `head' the shaft in the wheel thickens a bit, so needs to take the shortest route.
you should be able to see which head to drill, they look a bit neater.
MM
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seems a shame to have to drill your rivets out.
if you do, maker sure you drill the right end, or you'll risk cracking the wheels.
Drill the heads of the rivet, not the bit that is pressed (riveted) over, reason being, when they stamp the rivets over, not only does the metal form the new `head' the shaft in the wheel thickens a bit, so needs to take the shortest route.
you should be able to see which head to drill, they look a bit neater.
MM
cheers for that, I will find the right side and be very carefull
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theres a sticky in tech and resto stickies on how to rebuild these i stripped one a while back, best to buy a cassette hub and rob the bits you need off it :daumenhoch: