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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: GavinDavis on March 16, 2013, 05:26 PM

Title: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - ALL SORTED!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 16, 2013, 05:26 PM
Right, im having an absolute nightmare trying to get my headset on some 1" forks.

Even though they were nos, the thread was a bit rusty so I wd40'd the sucka and set about it with a wire brush. The headset will only go on about 1/4 inch and then locks solid.

Does anyone have a die that I could clean the thread up with? Or point me in the direction of the right one for me to buy?
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: oldschoolace on March 16, 2013, 05:30 PM
Have you got an old lock nut you can use to clean the thread up with Gavin? Bit of Dw and the right spanner should do the trick, assuming the fork threads are the same pitch as your headset?  :-\
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: sawzall on March 16, 2013, 05:38 PM
i have one,if you get stuck you can send them to me and i will do them for you foc :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: GavinDavis on March 16, 2013, 05:52 PM
Have you got an old lock nut you can use to clean the thread up with Gavin? Bit of Dw and the right spanner should do the trick, assuming the fork threads are the same pitch as your headset?  :-\

I might be able to dig one out that I can grind the top off and use that to work it down?

Its a beartrap 2 headset so im assuming its the same pitch as my forks? I cant imagine it would be different but you never know lol
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: GavinDavis on March 16, 2013, 05:53 PM
i have one,if you get stuck you can send them to me and i will do them for you foc :daumenhoch:

Ah great stuff! If I get stuck I will give you a shout  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: mattbloke on March 16, 2013, 06:43 PM
i also have a die if need be :)
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: GavinDavis on March 17, 2013, 01:18 PM
i also have a die if need be :)

What is the actual size of the die? Could I pick one up from my local engineering suppliers?
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: GavinDavis on March 17, 2013, 03:04 PM
So....just a quick update if anyone can shed some light for me....

Ive ground the top lip of an old 1" top nut and the bloody thing will wind down the whole length of the fork thread??

The top nut on my beartrap 2 headset will wind down all the way to the lip yet when I attempt to screw the first ring with the teeth on.....it locjs solid when the top of the fork thread is in line with the top thread of the ring? If that makes sense?

Is there anything I can do or is it a tapered thread on the headset? Im seriously thinking about grinding a couple of the top threads out in the hope it will go over? I dont get it?
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: GavinDavis on March 17, 2013, 04:23 PM
Well....i neatly ground out a couple of the threads from inside the top of the ring......and guess what....

The stupid thing still locks solid and wont go over the forks?  I give up with it now.....its getting slung in the drawer  :LolLolLolLol:

I can only presume that its either faulty or is a different thread to my forks? But yet the top nut is fine?....i don't know lol
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die
Post by: not johndub71 on March 17, 2013, 06:07 PM
smash it lol
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 17, 2013, 07:23 PM
Right then.....this may help, but it may not....and im getting more and more pee'd off  :LolLolLolLol:

PLEEEEASE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??????

Beartrap 2 lower ring......wont turn any further:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/i112/gavthelad/DSC_0272_zpsc3822a0d.jpg)

Beartrap 2 Top nut.....all the way up to the lip:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/i112/gavthelad/DSC_0273_zps129ba3d9.jpg)

Lower ring from a 94 GT Vertigo....Locked solid and wont go any further:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/i112/gavthelad/DSC_0275_zpsd4813243.jpg)

Stupid gay crappy old top nut with the lip ground off.....goes up and down the thread all day?????
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/i112/gavthelad/DSC_0274_zpsc5b8b547.jpg)
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: not johndub71 on March 17, 2013, 08:41 PM
Headset different thread. http://www.cyclespeugeot.com/Threading.html
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 17, 2013, 09:03 PM
Headset different thread. http://www.cyclespeugeot.com/Threading.html

What I cant get my head around though.....This is a mid school US bike so should just take any standard 1" headset??  Ive used Beartraps on other builds and theyve threaded down no problem? :( ....Im at a real loss with this lol.

Any ideas??
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: oldschoolace on March 18, 2013, 01:22 AM
Any chance the beartrap set was incomplete and someone found a lower ring to complete it that looked right but is the wrong pitch?  ???
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: Peter J on March 18, 2013, 08:33 AM
Are they normal "pro" sized forks and not mini forks?
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 18, 2013, 09:32 AM
Any chance the beartrap set was incomplete and someone found a lower ring to complete it that looked right but is the wrong pitch?  ???

Possible I suppose  :-\ ....Im gonna ring my local bike shop today and see if they can take a look for me :(
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 18, 2013, 09:33 AM
Are they normal "pro" sized forks and not mini forks?

Yep theyre normal size forks Pete......Mysterious isnt it!
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: not johndub71 on March 18, 2013, 10:58 AM
The only time I came across this was when I had my Marlboro BMX. I fooked the frame so bought a new frame and fork. The stem wouldnt go down the new fork, yet was an SR burner type. I would agree with nobby above the headset isn't totally complete has it should. Bummer..
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 18, 2013, 08:46 PM
The local bike shop tried various 1" headsets and nothing fits???  The beartrap is as near to fitting as it gets.....but the owner is saying that he's reluctant to run a 1"x24tpi die down the thread just incase it ruins the thread :(

What choice have I got??....He even tried a bloody french one!! lol.  Im just gonna say go for it and if it knackers the thread then so be it.... :(
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: Spen69 on March 19, 2013, 06:28 AM
Gav - have the forks been re-chromed ??? They look like it to me.....

If so,  I have an idea.
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: BADDH on March 19, 2013, 06:49 AM
One trick I was taught by my Dad when I started to help fixing cars was to file a V shape inside a sacrificial nut down the threads and apply plenty oil to help flush the rust/ grime into the V shape you have filed into the. Nut thus allowing the threads to clean instead of becoming damaged one turn in back off and repeat etc.

 Check the thread sizes and there is also the pitch you need to check.

May not be the case here but useful in the future  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: Discostu on March 19, 2013, 06:59 AM
I would imagine this is a case of the thread on the forks isn't cut deep enough. I have had this before.

This means the thread is correct IE the pitch and diameter but the v isn't deep enough for some nuts. Hence why some fit and some don't.
Take them to an engineering shop and they will tap the thread so it is deeper.  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 07:33 AM
Gav - have the forks been re-chromed ??? They look like it to me.....

If so,  I have an idea.

Theyre NOS Spen......  :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 07:34 AM
One trick I was taught by my Dad when I started to help fixing cars was to file a V shape inside a sacrificial nut down the threads and apply plenty oil to help flush the rust/ grime into the V shape you have filed into the. Nut thus allowing the threads to clean instead of becoming damaged one turn in back off and repeat etc.

 Check the thread sizes and there is also the pitch you need to check.

May not be the case here but useful in the future  :daumenhoch:

Nice tip  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: hunterdubber on March 19, 2013, 07:35 AM
Phil's offer of just sending them to him , seemed straight forward  ???

Two way postage has got to be cheaper then messing up a £20 plus Tioga headset or considering buying your own dye

Sounds like your  local bike shop are a bit clueless ,if they can't sort a threading issue

Good luck , don't chuck in the towel yet   :-\ :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 07:38 AM
I would imagine this is a case of the thread on the forks isn't cut deep enough. I have had this before.

This means the thread is correct IE the pitch and diameter but the v isn't deep enough for some nuts. Hence why some fit and some don't.
Take them to an engineering shop and they will tap the thread so it is deeper.  :daumenhoch:


It has to be the case Stu....it just has to be!  Im gonna take them back to the shop today for a once over with the die.....then fingers crossed i can get this sucka built!! lol.

Ive got parts scattered everywhere at the mo....pretty much taking up a whole room and if i dont get it built soon, the mrs is gonna get stressed  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 07:46 AM
Phil's offer of just sending them to him , seemed straight forward  ???

Two way postage has got to be cheaper then messing up a £20 plus Tioga headset or considering buying your own dye

Sounds like your  local bike shop are a bit clueless ,if they can't sort a threading issue

Good luck , don't chuck in the towel yet   :-\ :daumenhoch:



I know what youre saying ....it would have been easier to do the two way postage thing.

The bike shop are pretty clued up but yesterday he was reluctant to do it incase he damaged the thread, however....he did say to me that if i find out for sure that these were originally made with a 24tpi die then he would run his down it.

So he basically sent me away to do more homework.....Im pretty sure by now that 2Hip wouldnt have used anything other than a 24tpi die and that it stands a chance that the original thread wasnt cut deep enough.  These forks were some of the very first made so it really wouldnt suprise me going by other issues that people have faced when building them lol.
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: Discostu on March 19, 2013, 12:55 PM
Count the threads first before you take it to the bike shop.
Tpi stands for "threads per inch"

So count if you have 24 threads in 1" of the steerer tube.  :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 01:15 PM
Count the threads first before you take it to the bike shop.
Tpi stands for "threads per inch"

So count if you have 24 threads in 1" of the steerer tube.  :daumenhoch:



Stu.....Im not that bloomin thick .. :LolLolLolLol: 
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: animal on March 19, 2013, 07:23 PM
From what u have shown its all standard . The problem in my opinion is that the threads have been cut or rolled on but not formed correctly . They need re- dieing  ;) U can clearly c this from the pictures. the die was never tightened 2 cut the threads 2 the correct depth, Hence anything not worn with chrome in the threads will not tighten down easily  ::) If the nut runs all the way down its clearly 24 T.P.I. .
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - HELP!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 19, 2013, 07:29 PM
Yep it has to be  :daumenhoch:

I dropped them off today so the guy can run the correct die up and down the thread.

Picking them up tomorrow so fingers crossed they will be all good  :)
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - ALL SORTED!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 20, 2013, 02:13 PM
Thanks for all of your help and advice guys.....picked the forks up today and the thread is now mint!

The guy ran the die down it so it must have a crappy thread from new  :daumenhoch:

Im happy and still love 2-Hip so thats all good.....now to build the little monkey  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - ALL SORTED!!!!!
Post by: garran on March 20, 2013, 02:48 PM
nice result, i was going to suggest putting some stilsons on there and wearing it in, but i prefer your method mate!!!  (the things i used to do with a hammer and screwdriver bitd)
Title: Re: 1" fork thread die - NOW WITH PICS - ALL SORTED!!!!!
Post by: GavinDavis on March 20, 2013, 06:28 PM
Cheers Garran  :daumenhoch:

Im pretty chuffed now  :) ....gonna start building it when our little boy goes to bed  :daumenhoch:
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