RADBMX.CO.UK
Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: 84freestyler on April 01, 2014, 01:30 PM
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HI
does anyone know or do re riveting on skyway tuff 2,s.. I heard there's someone out in Australia and the US but I've not seen or know of anyone in the uk.. don't want to use bolts cos they look Naff!
Any advice would be much appreciated Guys :daumenhoch:
Thanks :)
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A good machine shop should be able to help you out. Where are you in the UK as I have a mate near Uxbridge that could probably help out and he is a road and mtb enthusiast so understands the value of these things.
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Mansfield NG18
Wouldn't be for a while tho, just finding out my options, somebody bleached them without protecting the alloy, got a replacement front hub, just need to locate a rear now (without coaster)
Thanks mate.
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If I could get hold of some exact stainless rivets for the hubs my brother and I could probably get somewhere with it, we,re both big car (vintage hotroders) nuts, don't see why this skyway re, riveting hasn't been sorted in the UK to help all us guys out.
Thanks
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If I could get hold of some exact stainless rivets for the hubs my brother and I could probably get somewhere with it, we,re both big car (vintage hotroders) nuts, don't see why this skyway re, riveting hasn't been sorted in the UK to help all us guys out.
Thanks
A couple of people have made their own rivets (don't forget they are tapered) and have managed to get them looking almost OG either through using a press and a peen finish to the rivet head. TBH I don't think there has been much demand for someone to set up a service doing it :-\ .
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why are they tapered, and to which end?
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Good question - as to which end (i.e : how to remove old rivets):
I think i read somewhere that the right side to drill the caps of the rivets is where they are untouched/original/flat, NOT the side where they seem pressed.
Seems illogical though to me :crazy2: ....shouldn't they look pressed on the slim side of the conic/tapered rivet...? "help"
here's a pic of an original rivet .....and some info in that thread about the machine (TAUMEL spin riveter or smth like that)
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23223.msg237620.html#msg237620
looptail on the museum about how to remove the rivets:
Take a centre punch to the centre of the rivet head. Drill out starting with a small bit, say 1/8. Then gradually use bigger ones until the head comes off onto the drill bit, making sure you dont use a drill bit bigger than the pin itself. By then you should be able to punch out the pin. Patience plus a good hand!
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=3537993#p3537993
waza there says: "use a mill with an 5mm end mill"
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That's a fair comment Marty. It would be nice to have the know how and tools to sort the hubs, not as a business tho.. It,d beat the filed down nuts n bolts trick some people have done which does look good for show builds..
And the postage to Oz or usa is ridiculous.
Tapered skyway bolts? Is that true. ???
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(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r604/J44NCG/BMX%20parts%20and%20decals%20etc/gen1campy_zps77f2653e.jpg)
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/Freestylerider/Kuwahara/2013-04-21160836_zpsbd07ee3a.jpg) .....courtesy Chris and Terry
my guess is the top pic shows the pressed side = the flat side = the slim side of the rivet = the side you need to drill off (in order to get the rivet out without cracking the mag)
someone please clear us up for us :-\
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Fischflo, good find! I read that too.. The Taumel machines look rather pricey tho don't they.
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yeah ...Steve P says 7500 bucks in the States :D
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/a217/steve167690/Misc/SkywayRivet.jpg) courtesy Steve P
if that is the original rivet .....AND if/ since the machine is a 'spinning' riveter .....then maybe the roundish/ convex side is in fact the 'pressed' side......... meaning the side to drill into....?
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Biagio used to sell original rivets .............
but what's the use, or the use of ones you remade after an original sample one .........if you don't have the waza-machine?
but maybe one could then at least get them riveted in a 'simple' stright-down fashion .......? If this is possible, then the rivets would have two flat sides (...right?), but who cares?
(Which points to the question: would it really have to be a tapered rivet, or would the thing be wobbly with a simpler, straight rivet. But i guess it would be wobbly, since the shank is conical, too)
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ha:
drill the shank so you can replace the tapered with a straight rivet :chin:
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Yes fischflo, your right "wot the point without a waza machine"
I,Ve been thinking about this and maybe with some trial and error the same could be achieved with a good quality drill on the "hammer" setting with a tempered piece of steel in the chuck with an impression to replicate the original stainless rivet.. You,d be able to rotate the drill manually off axis and maybe with some practice you cud get a similar finish?
Another tool which cud be used wud be an air hammer/chisel dialed up or down on psi until its gonna peen the rivet head down?
Just a thought for now until I source some rivets, and then practice on some scrap alloy before moving onto the tuffs
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think i'd concentrate first on either
getting the conic/tpared rivets done and search for a a machine shop that can hammer the thin in
or
finding out if the drilling of the shank would work and finding corresponding straight rivets
before you think about hammering the heads in urself ......although i bet u'd be able to make a buck, if you figure out that, too :D :smiley6600:
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Yes, I agree, lots to figure out fischflo.. The drilling, the density of the rivets (when I,ve sourced them) and wot it,ll take to do the job and actually recreate the same original finish..
Not in it for the moolah Mate!
Just want to sort it out.
Need some knackered tuffs to dissect, any offer Guys? Lol (seriously)
:daumenhoch:
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Guys !!!
I'm just laughing about all your theories....:) Not to be RUDE to you, but ive tried ALL of the ones you have mentioned.
* You can NOT press the rivets as they will distort and crack the plastic!!
* The rivets are stainless which "work hardens" (meaning the more you hit or press the rivet it gets harder)
* They are NOT tapered
* Drilling or milling the rivets out of the old ones requires a carbide drill/mill bit (Stainless is very tough on bits)
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You,ve tried all??
even the high end air hammer/drill fixed with a 5 tonne press all jigged and framed on a miller at the back of it?
Pm,d u for a price of shipping 10 rivets to the uk.
Thanks
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that video looks like a toughprocess to recreate.....
Tapered... i thought i was going mad ive looked at that pic of a rivet 3 times now thinking, is it me? that dont look tapered....it must be very subtle... :LolLolLolLol:
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lol ...me too, but didn't want to say anything because you keep reading they are tapered :LolLolLolLol: ...and that the tuffs crack if you tap the rivets out wrong way around
thanks Waz for clearing that up. :laugh:
So has anybody really ever get it done themselves :10_2_12: ....? Pictures please, because i've read too that people supposedly have.
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that video looks like a toughprocess to recreate.....
Tapered... i thought i was going mad ive looked at that pic of a rivet 3 times now thinking, is it me? that dont look tapered....it must be very subtle... :LolLolLolLol:
I,m hoping with practice we could replicate the same thing, some trial and error and Gerry rigged tools etc and I think its doable.. isn't it worth a go tho?
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everything is worth a go. :Great_Britain:
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Including this:
Aero zytec hubs. bolt on sealed bearings. similar to the aftermarket skyway smoothies, that were mentioned in another thread recently.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/VOLKSWAGONCAMPERPIX/IMG_1767_zpsd695396d.jpg)
Look how thick this is, in comparison to a skyway hub.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/VOLKSWAGONCAMPERPIX/IMG_1768_zpsb8c54f6e.jpg)
if a small section of the nylon was removed from the "tubes" that carry the rivets, it would sit flush. the spindle in the centre of the hub is machined, so that the hubs will only bolt up so far, so that there is no excess pressure on the sealed bearings. In engineering terms, this hub is a better solution than skyways version.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/VOLKSWAGONCAMPERPIX/IMG_1769_zps0be7a50e.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/VOLKSWAGONCAMPERPIX/IMG_1771_zps90f2a5aa.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y495/VOLKSWAGONCAMPERPIX/IMG_1772_zps854aeaf6.jpg)
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I was always a fan of the aero zytecs, but never got around to owning a pair :)
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Guys !!!
I'm just laughing about all your theories....:) Not to be RUDE to you, but ive tried ALL of the ones you have mentioned.
* You can NOT press the rivets as they will distort and crack the plastic!!
* The rivets are stainless which "work hardens" (meaning the more you hit or press the rivet it gets harder)
* They are NOT tapered
* Drilling or milling the rivets out of the old ones requires a carbide drill/mill bit (Stainless is very tough on bits)
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Interesting, then if they are not tapered why do Skyway warn against removing the wrong rivet head and cracking the wheel when removing it?
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marty, where have they said that? ive never seen any advice from skyway.....im not saying they havnt, but id like to read what else theyve said.
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It says it on the replacement hub instructions. Can't find my copy at the moment but it does state it.
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Im interested to know how this could be done
Look at mine -
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050641.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050641.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050643.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050643.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050640.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050640.jpg.html)
The wheel itself is fine, just the hub flanges need changing.
Thinking caps on ???
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Exact same problem Dirtskirt!
Mine are that badly corroded you can't even make out the skyway stamp! :(
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rivets are not tapered!!
the reason skyway says which direction to punch them out is that the rivet shaft does get slightly distorted on the end that is riveted
If you were to punch that end all the way through the plastic hole it would haveten stretch or crack the plastic tuff
[attachment=1]
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Im interested to know how this could be done
Look at mine -
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050641.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050641.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050643.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050643.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ff341/scottblackman/Ebay/P1050640.jpg) (http://s538.photobucket.com/user/scottblackman/media/Ebay/P1050640.jpg.html)
The wheel itself is fine, just the hub flanges need changing.
Thinking caps on ???
Have you bleached them yourself dirtskirt? they look super white.
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rivets are not tapered!!
the reason skyway says which direction to punch them out is that the rivet shaft does get slightly distorted on the end that is riveted
If you were to punch that end all the way through the plastic hole it would haveten stretch or crack the plastic tuff
[attachment=1]
So they are wider at one end than the other; what's a word that describes that ::)
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Marty, was going to put a pic of a TAPIR in but couldnt be arsed! lol
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Have you bleached them yourself dirtskirt? they look super white.
[/quote]
Yeah , i gave it a soaking in diluted bleach, the flanges were already a bit pitted due to age and oxidization, but it didn't help when i used grease to try and protect them from the bleach because it seeped through and made them worse. so ive tried to give them a polish up but they are so difficult & awkward. i gave it a second bleaching this time with thick layer of Vaseline which done the trick, Also the freewheel was toatally seized on so i had get the angle grinder to cut it off, being super careful not to touch the ally.
A lot of work for a battered old flange ;D
Can you still get replacement flanges anywhere?
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Yeah I,m after a set of rear hubs/flanges.. Got a front set coming but think there's a few scuffs on them from replacement bolts.. Got in touch with wazu007 and he,s kindly agreed to send me some rivets! "Thanks Wazu"
I wonder if there's any way to forge the flange too? Wouldn't that be Great??
What bleech did you use dirtskirt? I read the thinner the bleech the better? And for how long, and any pre bleech cleaning or scuffing before hand?
Thanks
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I reckon i could fabricate a pretty good copy from mild steel, but i couldnt do the thread.
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What bleech did you use dirtskirt? I read the thinner the bleech the better? And for how long, and any pre bleech cleaning or scuffing before hand?
Thanks
[/quote]
I just used lidl's bleach, 2 big bottles of the thick one I think? I had to add some water to get the whole wheel submerged. Gave it a slight scrub prior with warm water & washing powder & rough cloth.
Left it the bleach for a couple days I think.
Definitely need a heavy coat of Vaseline on the flanges tho to protect them, a good 10mm layer all over should do the job.
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thanks Dirtskirt.. If I can sort out the hub riveting I,ll bleech them without the hubs on the wheels..i Just need a good rear hub now? Got a post in the wanted section, anyone??
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There is a much easier way of getting a convincing looking finish to the original skyway rivets without the huge outlay or machinery.
Just get hold of some blind rivets
(http://sell.lulusoso.com/upload/20120429/JYR01_special_blind_rivet.jpg)
Then holding the correct size bolt in a drill, grind the desired shape for the head (this took seconds and with a bit of work with some wet or dry looked ace)
(http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x455/oldschoolace/rivet.jpg) (http://s1182.photobucket.com/user/oldschoolace/media/rivet.jpg.html)
Tighten the two together with decent pliers with a small bit of leather/rubber protecting the heads against the teeth and with a drop of thread lock its job done :daumenhoch:
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waza group deal ??
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There is a much easier way of getting a convincing looking finish to the original skyway rivets without the huge outlay or machinery.
Just get hold of some blind rivets
(http://sell.lulusoso.com/upload/20120429/JYR01_special_blind_rivet.jpg)
Then holding the correct size bolt in a drill, grind the desired shape for the head (this took seconds and with a bit of work with some wet or dry looked ace)
(http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x455/oldschoolace/rivet.jpg) (http://s1182.photobucket.com/user/oldschoolace/media/rivet.jpg.html)
Tighten the two together with decent pliers with a small bit of leather/rubber protecting the heads against the teeth and with a drop of thread lock its job done :daumenhoch:
Yeah, I,ve read most of what can be done with bolts, blind rivet etc.. And it does luk good for show bikes. But i want to ride mine tho.
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If you want to ride it just use the replacement nut and bolt from the kits
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No reason why you can't ride them, a blind nut is just as effective as the skyway replacement nut and bolt set when it comes to strength.
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If you want to ride it just use the replacement nut and bolt from the kits
It may come to that mate if I can't rivet them.. I just think the nut and bolt look a little naff. Just my opinion tho :)
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if you used that method on the bolt (grinding) then used a dome nut - possibly ground down as well, it would look better than a standard nut and bolt.
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if you used that method on the bolt (grinding) then used a dome nut - possibly ground down as well, it would look better than a standard nut and bolt.
I,ve considered that too mate, that is a good second option to the rivets :daumenhoch:
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Rivets arrived and in just 5 days from Oz!
Big "Thank You" to wazu007 (he knows why) :daumenhoch:
"So it Begins"
Wish me luck fellow Radsters!
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I HOPE IT BLOODY WORKS... :LolLolLolLol:
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They are NOT wider at one end. FACT
when they get riveted the rivet shaft gets distorted (twisted)
If you try and push the distorted(bent) end through the plastic it MAY crank the plastic.
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Old thread as needed some advice , so worthy of a bump.. :bump: