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Mid School BMX (>87) 1989 to 2003 (<05) => Mid School ( Keep the faith ) => Topic started by: meisterjim on February 06, 2015, 10:15 AM
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There are only 10 frames worldwide, Kuwahara tange build this frames for the german market, the BMX company in Germany Hajos Frankfurt got 10 frames in 1990 then in germany the BMX scene chash and the Hajos company close the BMX store, 20 jears later one of my friends Buy all the old BMX stuff from Hajos smile one container full with BMX parts, Bikes, this is why i get this exrtem RARE frames :-)
(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc02430xg5y3da1ip.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc02431loiahv76zt.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc02432e8ufi23r69.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc024332njwx7czoh.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
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that's tidy :coolsmiley:
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Looks very nice does that :daumenhoch:
I think it should be in the Mid School section though, buddy :)
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Looks great :coolsmiley:
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Wow, nice. Looks like an S&M dirtbike with a higher bb shell.
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not usually a fan of whitewalls and the 'coloured bits', but on this one :shocked: ......good pics ^"^
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That looks great!
Any other details, is it Pro XL size?
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Wow, nice. Looks like an S&M dirtbike with a higher bb shell.
Or a freeagent limo :daumenhoch:
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Looks like a re stickered Holmes or Limo
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thats lovely 8) but ... not into the tyres ... I'd rather see some knobbly tires on a racer :angel:
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Nice - would like to see the serial number - any piccies of it :daumenhoch:
Like said above - looks like a B&E made frame?
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That's nice. :)
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Are there any Kuwahara stampings or serial number?
The dropouts, BB and headset look very much like my Kuwahara Champion:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MxZzjB4-fxA/USims8-kN9I/AAAAAAAAA5g/UEoLfJzA2lE/s640/IMGP5981.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ozTXl9BR9EU/USimut3xNsI/AAAAAAAAA5w/QsZuUC44IPE/s640/IMGP5983.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8RAWoktzrHo/USim1ZdOMaI/AAAAAAAAA6o/kSQXfIKznuc/s640/IMGP5990.JPG)
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If you look at the rear dropout there are 3 letters and 4 numbers, just like an S&M, the dropouts are really thick too. It does look a lot like a Holmes.
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If you look at the rear dropout there are 3 letters and 4 numbers, just like an S&M, the dropouts are really thick too. It does look a lot like a Holmes.
Totally agree me old fister. Double drops, got that little 'kink in' on the drops between the seat and chain stays. Would like a piccy of the drops on the forks as well. Looks like a Holmes/DB from around 91-94.
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It does really look like a non brake mount mk3 holmes which is quite rare in itself
Post a pic of the serial number :daumenhoch:
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Apparently the serial number is HHX2009
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Apparently the serial number is HHX2009
Betcha it's a B&E made frame :daumenhoch:
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So this is a Holmes and not a prototype kuwi? I'm confused. Does that mean the Haro prototype from habanero, or what every it is, is actually a sausage
[img=http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc01523qsao012cp8.jpg]http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc01523qsao012cp8.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015243fvsu5pbqr.jpg]http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015243fvsu5pbqr.jpg (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)[/url]
[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015254ebh0cunxl.jpg]http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015254ebh0cunxl.jpg (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)[/url]
[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015260f5ljsc3xq.jpg]http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc015260f5ljsc3xq.jpg (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)[/url]
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I think J it's got massive similarities to Holmes's, early Homeless bikes and a few others because it's actually B&E made (welded up in the B&E factory) in the US, not Tange made. B&E made frames for a load of early Mid companies that didn't have in-house frame building (little dull fact - S&M didn't start making frames in-house till 2003.....).
The similarities to B&E made frames are: headtube and bottom bracket tube, dropouts are identical in shape and they're double plate, seat-stay bridge same in shape and double-plate, the big old giveaway is though the serials - they're identical to all the B&E made ones - so a Holmes will be HXL 0000, a B&E made Dirt Bike will be SMD 0000, the B&E Badd & Co's are BPL 0000 and so on.
Still an ace frame though :daumenhoch:
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'Scuse my ignorance....but what does B&E stand for?
And who were/are they?
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'Scuse my ignorance....but what does B&E stand for?
And who were/are they?
B&E stands for Bert & Ernie
And they were two muppets of Sesame Street :LolLolLolLol:
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'Scuse my ignorance....but what does B&E stand for?
And who were/are they?
They are a fabrication company based in California - they built a crap load of early 90's frames for companies that didn't have in-house fabrication facilities or for companies that had a high demand and couldn't keep up with production so farmed out manufacture to B&E - B&E started up about near on 30 years ago.
They've made frames for:
S&M
Homeless
Badd & Co
Brackens
Hyper
White Bear
And allegedly Revcore and a few more at one point n'all :daumenhoch:
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Just googled 'em, seems like they still do frames, forks and bars :daumenhoch:
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Hey friends,
Its 100% kuwahara, the serial number is HHX2009, the HH is for HARTWIG HOFHERR Hajos in germany
http://kuwahara-laserlite.de/11.html
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Sorry but I can't see how that was made by Tange, particularly with that serial no, the bb shell, headtube and not forgetting the identical double dropouts to a Holmes/dirtbike which is slightly weird for a lightweight race specific frame........
Some better pics of the brake bridge here too, along with another frame owner who badged theirs up as suntour.
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=630413&p=1
I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.
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I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.
Agreed again - there's a couple of minor differences (as in the chain-stay bridge is a little further back, the heattube is reversed) but I'll bet my left nadger that the frame was built on the same jig as the Holmes, Dirt Bike and the early Homless Mack frames. Looking at the forks in that Museum thread n'all, they're reasonably close to Pitch Forks...
Anyhow - it's an ace frame, thought I'd do a couple of comparison pics. They won't be identical as it's a Platform Dirt Bike frame so it's got a coaster tab and no gusset up front and I can't be arsed to get my DB down from the loft. But it's B&E made:
Your Kuwie Drops:
[attachment=1]
B&E made Dirt Bike Drops (ignore coaster tab and slight flaring to drops due to use):
[attachment=2]
Your Kuwie Bottom Bracket:
[attachment=3]
B&E DB Bottom Bracket:
[attachment=4]
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And your head tube:
[attachment=1]
B&E Head tube:
[attachment=2]
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The problem is there are more differents, on the last pic you can see the hole, its for the cable for the v brake. my frame dont have v brake, its true there are similarity, but does not mean anything :)
I'm not suggesting Kuwahara didn't commission this but I am saying its identical to a dirtbike or a Holmes and it's deffo a B&E frame.
Agreed again - there's a couple of minor differences (as in the chain-stay bridge is a little further back, the heattube is reversed) but I'll bet my left nadger that the frame was built on the same jig as the Holmes, Dirt Bike and the early Homless Mack frames. Looking at the forks in that Museum thread n'all, they're reasonably close to Pitch Forks...
Anyhow - it's an ace frame, thought I'd do a couple of comparison pics. They won't be identical as it's a Platform Dirt Bike frame so it's got a coaster tab and no gusset up front and I can't be arsed to get my DB down from the loft. But it's B&E made:
Your Kuwie Drops:
[attachment=1]
B&E made Dirt Bike Drops (ignore coaster tab and slight flaring to drops due to use):
[attachment=2]
Your Kuwie Bottom Bracket:
[attachment=3]
B&E DB Bottom Bracket:
[attachment=4]
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:popcorn:
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:popcorn: Think I'll pull up a chair. :LolLolLolLol:
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Were not saying its exactly the same as the other pictured, were trying to show you it is very similar in many ways
gotta be a B&E made frame, shares to many characteristics of the other frames they made for companies like s&m, homeless etc...
If it is tange made for Kuwahara then they must of had a homeless or s&m frame to hand and said make it like this!
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Love stuff like this, you guys know your stuff and i'd definitely take on board what they're saying.
Danny, looking at your breakdown of companies B&E made for they must've made the Hyper Metro then? I always thought mine looked like an S&M in places, also a Limo as well
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Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner ::)
he nose his shite does Kusturdtits :daumenhoch:
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Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner ::)
he nose his shite does Kusturdtits :daumenhoch:
Ed you :bellend:
What i said was... you talk shite and you'd look cool on a Burner. :daumenhoch:
So get your fookin facts right. :LolLolLolLol:
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The problem is there are more differents, on the last pic you can see the hole, its for the cable for the v brake. my frame dont have v brake, its true there are similarity, but does not mean anything :)
MJ - I can show you a B&E made S&M without AD lugs (so no cable guide) from the same period as your frame - if anyone's got a lugless Holmes from 1991 - 1993 it'll look identical to your frame. Being made by B&E isn't a bad thing - that frame is ace, and great it's come to light. I am 100% sure it wasn't made by Tange but B&E.
Your other Proto H frame also I think is made by B&E - this one:
[attachment=1]
If you look at the BB again etc it's B&E - but check the odd shaped seat-stay brake bridge and compare it to a B&E made 'Murray Stay' Holmes:
[attachment=2]
And check the other Hajo's frame the same as yours - the chain stay bridge is also identical to the B&E made Murray Holmes:
[attachment=3]
Danny, looking at your breakdown of companies B&E made for they must've made the Hyper Metro then? I always thought mine looked like an S&M in places, also a Limo as well
Yeah Rob, they made the Metro :daumenhoch: There's a load of similarities with the Free Agents as well, but I'm not sure (as I've never owned one to look at it closely) if B&E made em. Possibility though as they made a crap load of frames for other companies back then - even ones with in house manufacture.
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Nick CustardLips pm'd me to say you are all talking shite 'cause its a Burner ::)
he nose his shite does Kusturdtits :daumenhoch:
Ed you :bellend:
What i said was... you talk shite and you'd look cool on a Burner. :daumenhoch:
So get your fookin facts right. :LolLolLolLol:
pmsl ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Guess it's not a bad thing, if it were built on the same jig as early S&Ms, I wouldn't mind these facts, but investigate them further :daumenhoch: - very impressive, guys, good stuff. :bow: