RADBMX.CO.UK
Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: Avro on January 26, 2017, 09:55 AM
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Late last year I posted a wanted thread for a Shimano or Kuwahara project, I received a reply from Monkian, Tange/Tioga guru on here, with an unusual frame (due to some odd glitches in messaging it turned out that I was also offered a Kuwahara by another member but I was unaware at the time. This is why I find myself buried under projects!).
I was offered a S&G Cycles Muddy Wolf by Araya. It was in need of some love; a dent to the steering head tube and numerous knocks from a straight edge to the same area. However it was interesting. Here is a summary of Monkian's research:
1982 S&G Cycles Muddy Wolf
S&G Cycles - Muddy Wolf. Made by Araya.
This was a skip find a few years back that was sold on but sat in a shed until I got hold of it. It was originally listed for sale as an Ishibashi and it seems to have all the trademarks of the Ishibashi frame: Oval top-tube, Tear-drop down-tube, Full Cr-Mo, Giant style drop-outs, nice tight welds etc. Serial stamp is on the BB: 224177.
The Muddy Wolf was released in the UK under S&G Cycles (who had a close association with Muddy Fox). Araya provided this frame alongside early Muddy Fox Mountain Bikes to the UK based company. Even though this frame was provided by Araya, it's possible that Araya bought in the frames rather than fabricating themselves although this is pure speculation. I understand Ishibashi built their own bikes so they may have built these for Araya. Some have said that the identical Ishibashi frame was Tange made or was made using Tange tube-sets but again, I feel that this is speculative. Personally I wonder if Araya (as part of the JBM Group at the time) would have had (or needed) the production set up for frame making as companies in that region often operated like a collective and the Araya factory was heavily focused on Rim production.
The JBM group consisted of Araya, KKT, Sakae Ringyo (SR), Shimano, Takagi, and Tange. The group broke up in 1984.
Here is a link to the frame as purchased:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=331756
The cosmetic damage to the frame was such that I decided to have it dechromed and go to paint later. To repair the dent and knocks and then rechrome was out of the question. I have a Laserlite that I would like to get rechromed in the future so it was a case of priorities and available funds. I also have a colour scheme in mind, it will mean a lot of work but, I hope, worth it.
Here's the frame after the dechrome:
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010716_zpscq3z1kf8.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010716_zpscq3z1kf8.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010717_zps5tuok82o.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010717_zps5tuok82o.jpg.html)
Super tight welds.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010718_zpsyv0l6tl5.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010718_zpsyv0l6tl5.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010719_zpsfrbwalmc.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010719_zpsfrbwalmc.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010715_zpskl0incui.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010715_zpskl0incui.jpg.html)
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I am having trouble getting pictures into the thread.
The pictures are the correct size (1065x800 and around 230kb each), I am doing exactly what I have done before but an error message comes up
'Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow.'
Please consult your server administrator for more information.'
The error message comes up instantly.
Any ideas?
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I am having trouble getting pictures into the thread.
The pictures are the correct size (1065x800 and around 230kb each), I am doing exactly what I have done before but an error message comes up
'Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow.'
Please consult your server administrator for more information.'
The error message comes up instantly.
Any ideas?
You need a photobucket or similar image hosting account. Copy and paste the IMG code here :daumenhoch:
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Our web guru has been trying to get the attachment module on the forum improved - currently it appears to be down though for everyone
Alternative right now would be to use an image hosting site like photobucket or Imgur - sorry for the hassle and hopefully we'll be in better shape soon with an improved service ;)
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Looking forward to this!! :daumenhoch:
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So pleased that this frame finally found a good home. I can't wait to see what you do with it Peter ;)
Tapatalk is useful for adding photos direct from your phone, if that helps.
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Ok, got to grips with Photobucket so we are away.
As you can see the frame is extremely well made, super tight welds and lovely tube shapes.
A little skim of filler to the small dent to the steering head tube...
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010723_zps7jezdyek.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010723_zps7jezdyek.jpg.html)
..and into primer.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010732_zpszta16bcq.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010732_zpszta16bcq.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010733_zpsmjftmx9j.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010733_zpsmjftmx9j.jpg.html)
One thing that puzzles me is the threaded hole in each rear dropout. It is the bottom small hole, M5 is the size. Any ideas what it is for?
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010734_zpsvcamrqfb.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010734_zpsvcamrqfb.jpg.html)
That is as far as I have got. A start at least. I really like this frame.
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The threaded holes could be for a whale tail chain tensioner, an after market addition.
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Marty is bang on the money there. The Hattori ProSight (made with Tange tubes and the same drop-outs) came fitted with a unique looking set of chain-tensioners that did the same job as Whale Tails:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/17502e410f810e33e57a735cff4a6619.jpg)
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I guess it saved you having to drill holes in your drop-outs :/
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/daeb766e930dd0e81d7026540f01a4a9.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/b072cd9a79e7200fc3a5c30c8fe7fa81.jpg)
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I guess it saved you having to drill holes in your drop-outs :/
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/daeb766e930dd0e81d7026540f01a4a9.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/b072cd9a79e7200fc3a5c30c8fe7fa81.jpg)
Always thought those things were cool but never knew you had to butcher your frame to install them?!
Every day's a school day ;)
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Great info there Paul! :bow:
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I found this in an old mag somewhere. I think there may have been some variants on it. I always presumed it was for the Muddy Wolf even though it says Muddy Fox, unless S&G released another BMX but I've seen no evidence of that. Hunting similar ads (probably in UK mags) might help ;)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170128/817aa9984cb65b589a6ed99897166a61.jpg)
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One last thing. Here's a pic of how it was originally found, still hanging on to a few of its original parts:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170128/e0601bdac46918ddfe5c534bacfa6ef6.jpg)
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Thanks for that. The original advert is terrific and will definately influence the build. I can not go exactly to original specification as I will have to use what parts I have in the main. Furthermore that advert may be pre-production with some details subject to change. Having a BMX and Mountain Bike with the same name would make things a little complicated and would have be an obvious thing to have change. I will try to find out more.
Thanks for input everyone, makes this kind of thread so much more fun.
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Interestingly the advert has a different frame; the dropouts are not the same! The plot thickens!
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Yeah you're right Marty. It looks more like a Tange made Cycle-Pro Bonzai Pro frame. I guess there could have been two S&G models or a supply change or just a mock-up for the ad. Really hard to say without one surfacing or finding more info. I'm pretty sure there are more ads out there :/
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This is a little side project to the main and one I finished today.
This bike is getting Shimano DX pedals, rather fortuitous given the 'bike as found' pic. posted by Monkian.
I bought a pair of DX pedals recently, in their original box, off Ebay. They came with a complete Sugino three piece crank set up which I also needed so it was a happy time! The price label on the box reads: SUPERTUNE Tel. Studley 3778 and hand written 14.50 (price). May raise some memories?
The pedals themselves were quite nice really, bashed and scraped as they should be:
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010702_zpsovnzqzgz.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010702_zpsovnzqzgz.jpg.html)
Stipped down and close ups:
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010720_zpso2csly6y.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010720_zpso2csly6y.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010739_zpsjkpkonjf.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010739_zpsjkpkonjf.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010742_zpsf4s1zbty.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010742_zpsf4s1zbty.jpg.html)
I am sure most of you have seen it a hundred times. I know I don't want them in silver but in red so a mild resto. was required. A bit of filing, fine filler for the worst gouges and a rub down later things were looking better. I do not want the pedals to look new, that is not the aim at all, I want them to be red and smart. So, with that in mind on they go into a sliver base coat:
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010754_zps3vrhfzdv.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010754_zps3vrhfzdv.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010753_zpsmj5mxzhu.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010753_zpsmj5mxzhu.jpg.html)
Then into translucent red, applied until the desired depth of colour was achieved:
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010758_zpsmce7hyf8.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010758_zpsmce7hyf8.jpg.html)
There was not a lot I could do with the end-caps except thoroughly clean and then gently clean up the worst of the mashing. This is a good as they are going to get unless I get super clever but that won't happen!
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010764_zpsrzhmcmlw.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010764_zpsrzhmcmlw.jpg.html)
I know they are not concours but I am pleased with the result. If I should ever refinish them I will be sure to use a more durable finish but that said I think they will do nicely for the build. There are compromises to be made I guess, I can not afford new caps so the rest needs to reflect is my thinking. Anyway, at least the project has moved on a little.
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Pedals look great Peter... nice work. :daumenhoch:
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I am very keen to keep this build on track, the frame is so smart and deserves some good parts. I will have to compromise given funds, and the need to use mainly what parts I have, but I will put some money into this one.
The frame has been powder coated and looks very smart, now time to work on the theme. There is a build on the Old School board that I really like, a Diamond Back Pro Star. No flashy parts but a really good and thought through theme. It is not unique, just very well done. I am going to try to reach that standard if possible.
I could not resist putting on a few parts yesterday. The headset is an alloy Mirage unit from Alans. I agonised over buying it! It's fitted and looks very nice indeed; it is a very tactile part too. By that I mean that the alloy has a very pleasing 'brushed' finish. The top nut even comes with a fitted 'O' ring. Yes I wish it was from circa. 1982 but meh, it is still very nice. The ARX fork came from my 'Racergoose' which now sports pinched TX1200's. Maxy Cross cranks are in lovely condition, I actually paid quite a lot for them from C4Labs a while ago, they came with bottom bracket. The chainring is 44T SR and seat post clamp by Tange. The pedals I have already talked about.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/avrolancaster/P1010795_zpssx7aidyc.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/avrolancaster/media/P1010795_zpssx7aidyc.jpg.html)
Progress.
I am having a problem with the wheels though. I do have a pair of Araya 7x rims (they are a bit gnarly mind), in gold but I would strip and polish. I do have a pair of nos red Suzue hubs. So there is a potential ideal wheel set there. Problem is I really want to use the rims on another build. I do have a set of Ukai skinny chrome rims laced to polished Suzue hubs, they are totally gorgeous. My worry is can I legitimately use them on a bike titled 'S&G Cycles made by Araya'? Do I worry too much? *giggles*
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Looking good man. Love red and white too :)
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can see the dilemma Peter
might be like wearing a nike tracksuit top with adidas bottoms :teef:
only joking btw, would be simpler to just amend the thread title :whistle:
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....I am getting the decals reproduced and they would betray me!
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Ha Ha! I forgot about my recent score from this site :idiot2:
Totally minty 7c's:
[attachment=1]
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Looking good so far! Have you got the wheels built yet? Look forward to seeing it finished 8)
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Your doing a great job on this :coolsmiley:
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Those rims look the nuts, It's really taking shape :daumenhoch:
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Thanks for that.
The rims are lush. I am a bit short at the moment so they remain unbuilt, in fact the project has not progressed since. This has been largely to lots of over-time at work. I have some time coming up and hope to fettle the bikes a little and get the anodising back on track.
Thanks again for the comments.
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The Muddy Wolf is just as it was, if sporting a pair of chrome Ukai skinnys so it can fit in my bike rack. Before I spend anymore cash, or time, on this build I really want the decal set in hand. I do not mind if the decal set is a close approximation I just feel that without them I can not progress. The decals were ordered, originals to be worked from the best photographs I could get, some time ago so fingers crossed.
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Things are looking up for this project.
Tail end of 2016 I sent delcals some photographs of an original frame with decals still intact. Thanks to Paul Myers, Monkian, for getting those for me. Here are most of them:
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
[attachment=4]
[attachment=5]
[attachment=1]
There were more of the smaller decals on the seat post tube, but even so I hesitated to ask Delcals to try to replicate them. This is partly due to my ignorance of the process and complete lack of any computer and/or design skills! Needless to say Delcals took on the job with the provisio of an open time frame. I gave the dimensions and left them to it. This was fine as I have several projects all competing for my time.
Well, I had all but given up on the project when I thought another nudge to Delcals can not hurt. It turns out that I must have missed a message as the decals had been ready for some time; happens to me too often and I blame internet stupidity or dotage...
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...
Delcals smashed it again and the project lives. I will get back on track soon but another project has very recently moved on massively.
Anyway, Delcals :bow:
[attachment=3]
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Tough day at work so a little downtime in the man-cave:
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
[attachment=4]
[attachment=1]
Getting there now.
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Not sure about the stem but It's looking good Peter. :daumenhoch:
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I know what you mean about the stem but I am feeling a little 'priced out' at the moment. The stem, as you know, costs peanuts. It is also a perfect red for the build. This bike is having to make do with what I have or what I can get on a budget. I would rather do this than not build at all. I simply can not afford redline cranks, nos power stems etc. However I hope I more than make up for this with resto skills and putting in the hours!
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I thought that about the stem too but then noticed the skinnies on it so figured it's going to be a build aimed at the junior/expert sized rider bracket; I just hope the bars are "junior/expert" sized and not humongous pro sizes bars :D
Does look good in white and red too :daumenhoch:
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Skinnies are just to roll it around on. The bars are narrow Win jobbies necessitating Tech 2's, or pre-bents I guess.
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Glad the photos helped Peter. Decals looking awesome :)
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I had planned a day on the beach but 'the best laid plans of mice and men' and all that. So into the man-cave and some quality time.
In the spirit of 'making do with what I have' here is my finished rendition of the 'S&G Cycles Muddy Wolf'.
Frame: 1982 S&G Cycles by Araya Muddy Wolf
Forks: Tange ARX
Wheels: Alloy hubbed Skyway Tuf II
Tyres: Rainbow Comp III
Handlebars: Win
Grips: Tange
Stem: Holds the handlebars to the frame
Headset: Does the business
Seatpost: GT laidback
Seatpost clamp. Tange SC1
Saddle: Hard as nails
Cranks: Sugino Maxy Cross
Bottom bracket: Tange
Chainwheel: Tuf-Neck 41T
Sprocket: Shimano MX30 16T
Pedals: Shimano DX
Brake tever: Tech 2
Brake caliper: Dia-compe 860
Cable: Shimano
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
[attachment=4]
[attachment=5]
[attachment=1]
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Now there was me envisaging this on spokes then you go and put Skyways on it!! Some framesets, like the T/A, look great with mags and this is ticking the boxes with me! That said, it would also be nice to see it with rims if and when you ever get the chance. :daumenhoch:
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Cracking build and a real nice rare bike but personally I prefer it with spoke wheels as it looked a proper race machine on those skinnies :daumenhoch:
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Thanks for that.
I do have a mint pair of red Araya 7c rims and nos red Suzue hubs which were earmarked for this build. I can not afford the spokes just yet but I will build them sometime this year.