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BMX General => BMX Chat => Topic started by: dialledbikes on September 29, 2007, 07:25 PM

Title: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: dialledbikes on September 29, 2007, 07:25 PM
So Alex, is this your holy grail?  Or is it merely another decoy despatched by the Priory of Sion to throw the evil Opus Dei off the trail?
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 07:36 PM
thanks mike. so much for it staying low key!!!!!  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: rory on September 29, 2007, 07:41 PM
it will be interesting how much it goes for.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: harris on September 29, 2007, 07:42 PM
cat bag out of
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: darkersomeday on September 29, 2007, 07:44 PM
i bet that dudes message box is bouncing!

theres threads popping up about this listing all over the shop,

is it real though!??
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: dialledbikes on September 29, 2007, 07:45 PM
Oops, sorry guys.  Link removed.

But is it a real one? Or just a stickered up Cook Bros?

There was also a Holmes on there yesterday with Prince Alberts.  Wonder who got that?
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: the_cyclops on September 29, 2007, 07:46 PM
Yay! i

m the current high bidder!

I should be though as ive put my maximum bid at $14000.01



















Only joking ;D



Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 07:51 PM
Mike, you got a link to the holmes with the PAs, I missed that one. What did it go for?


I think that mad dog is real but a very early one, and its almost hard to tell when a cooks bros stop and a mad dog started (on the real early mad dogs). It was only after a while they started doing their own S&M thing on the frames they got made for them.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: YGT on September 29, 2007, 08:44 PM
Iput on what I thought was a really high bid but still didnt meet reserve .... obviously this is meant to sell for major $$$$$
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 08:52 PM
come on, lets start saying what we thing it will go for? Us in the UK have got the 2$:1£ advantage, but I dont think that will make me wanna go silly.

I'll take a guess at it going for $500. I think if I paid that much Id want it to have half decant decals on it. Ive paid less than that for very nice early S&Ms, but for complete bikes with great parts on them. I think the early S&M prices have changed thanks to the 20 year aniversary. Everyone wants a mad dog now!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: billstup on September 29, 2007, 09:01 PM
We can`t guess what price it`s going to go for because the links gone  :knuppel2:

So I`ll have a punt at $750 seeing as I`ve got no idea what we`re talking about  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: YGT on September 29, 2007, 09:04 PM
is it a real mad dog though? ....
there is a sugestion its a very rare non loop tale cooks bros frame.

I bid 420 and didnt even meet reserve.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 09:06 PM
here you go. Im sure anyone who wanted to find a "S&M Maddog frame" could search for one, easy enough, so there is no harm in the link being up here.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280157971754&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

Bill, you might be able to tell me if it looks more like a non-loop CooksBros frame (instead of an S&M at all). Maybe Ratty will know? Maybe someone is bidding on it, thinking "hey, there is a non-loop CBR on Ebay and its been wrongly listed. I'll get it for next to nothing!". haha.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: billstup on September 29, 2007, 09:31 PM
I haven`t got a clue Alex, but I wouldn`t pay all that much for it myself, tbh it looks like a cheap catolog f/f to me, sorry  :-\
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 09:36 PM
I haven`t got a clue Alex, but I wouldn`t pay all that much for it myself, tbh it looks like a cheap catolog f/f to me, sorry  :-\

Yeah Bill, the mad dog frames werent that nice to ride. Its more about what it stood for, and what it started than how good the frame is. Lets face it, NS bikes are way better to ride than most OS stuff, but thats not what collecting is about. The mad dog is the first S&M frame, regardless of what it was like.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: the_cyclops on September 29, 2007, 09:46 PM
it looks like a cheap catolog f/f to me, sorry  :-\


Thats got to be the quote of the month  ;D
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: billstup on September 29, 2007, 10:12 PM
Sorry guys I didn`t mean to piss on it, but what I ment was if I saw that f/f in a bike shop I wouldn`t give it a second glance as it looks like a pos, although I know its not  :angel:
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: the_cyclops on September 29, 2007, 10:15 PM
Sorry guys I didn`t mean to piss on it, but what I ment was if I saw that f/f in a bike shop I wouldn`t give it a second glance as it looks like a pos, although I know its not  :angel:


Thats what I meant!

Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 29, 2007, 11:14 PM
[ The mad dog is the first S&M frame, regardless of what it was like.
[/quote]

tsk, tsk, shame on you Alex, what about the K9 D-zine?  That was the first S&M, whippersnapper!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 11:16 PM
[ The mad dog is the first S&M frame, regardless of what it was like.

tsk, tsk, shame on you Alex, what about the K9 D-zine?  That was the first S&M, whippersnapper!
[/quote]

yeah, I did read that in the latest Dig ... Id never heard of it before. Tell me more, OB-goz
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: dialledbikes on September 29, 2007, 11:20 PM
Alex, the Holmes with PAs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-90s-Vintage-S-M-BMX-bike_W0QQitemZ330170039853QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Still for sale.  I thought it had gone.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: Lazarou on September 29, 2007, 11:23 PM
[ The mad dog is the first S&M frame, regardless of what it was like.

tsk, tsk, shame on you Alex, what about the K9 D-zine?  That was the first S&M, whippersnapper!

yeah, I did read that in the latest Dig ... Id never heard of it before. Tell me more, OB-goz
[/quote]


It's a new one on me too! I'm intrigued!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 11:32 PM
[ The mad dog is the first S&M frame, regardless of what it was like.

tsk, tsk, shame on you Alex, what about the K9 D-zine?  That was the first S&M, whippersnapper!

yeah, I did read that in the latest Dig ... Id never heard of it before. Tell me more, OB-goz


It's a new one on me too! I'm intrigued!
[/quote]


I think it was just the very first run of not many S&M frames. Then they tweaked a few things for the next run and changed the name to the Mad Dog. Lets start saying that bike on Ebay isnt a Mad Dog, its a "K9 D-zine"!!! (hey, it might be!)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 11:41 PM
Alex, the Holmes with PAs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-90s-Vintage-S-M-BMX-bike_W0QQitemZ330170039853QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Still for sale.  I thought it had gone.

Mike, that is a later Holmes cos its a-head. All the parts look like they are period correct, including the first gen PAs. Very nice really. Im guessing as there are 6 days left, he relisted it. that is a high starting price, (although he might well get it)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 29, 2007, 11:45 PM
The K-9 D-Zine was the proto to the Mad Dog (hey, I haven't read that 20years of S&M so i'm just going in memory here!!!), I think it was made by Cook Bros but I don't think Chris and Greg had more than a few made to see how it could work out.  

You all know Greg right?  Everyone thinks S&M stands for 'Scott & Moeller' after the founders but The S actually stands for 'Swingrover' as that is the real name of Chris's early partner.  Chris thought Swingrover and Moeller sounded gay (you don't say!)  so they just changed it to Scott.  Greg Scott (Greg Swingrover) sold up to Chris real early on and went to work for GT (warehouse/shipping manager) but went on to be the main main at Crupi.  Greg has just bought Crupi and is a really cool guy.  As Mad Dog is pretty hard to get ahold of, i'll email Greg and get the lowdown on the K9.

Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 29, 2007, 11:47 PM
Alex, the reaon why they cahned the name to Mad Dog was Chris was building a solid rep through BMXA as main bike tester so tehy thought that the Mad Dof label would help it sell better but you're right, in hardware terms they were teh same bike.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 29, 2007, 11:48 PM
Jesus my spelling goes to shit when I type quick, sorry!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 29, 2007, 11:51 PM
Ive been looking at some old pics of Mad Dog frames (yep, its just a brake from the chick and drugs that are usually going on round my house on a sat night!!!). Every one I saw had a brace across the chainstays behind the BB (like most frames). That one on ebay could still be one, just a very early one without the brace.
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 12:07 AM
Ive been looking at some old pics of Mad Dog frames (yep, its just a brake from the chick and drugs that are usually going on round my house on a sat night!!!). Every one I saw had a brace across the chainstays behind the BB (like most frames). That one on ebay could still be one, just a very early one without the brace.

I reckon it's legit mate, looks so close to that pic of my old black one as discussed on the pm's. I also remember that black and red were the main colours of those first ones.  I'll email the link to Greg, you email the link to Chris and ask if either of them an identify?

Funny, the first quote I can remember from Mad Dog was he was asked what he was going to do with the money he was making from S&M, he said he wanted to buy some Birkenstocks....Chris was pretty broke back in the day, Robinson sponsored him but he just sold the bike.... Alex do you remeber Paul Green?  What about Salami?  I have the best picture of Paul Green ever.....
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: Lazarou on September 30, 2007, 12:13 AM
It looks identical to this one although you can't see the brake bridge, it also has some light blue at the top of the seat tube, was this an original colour too?


(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v432/Lazarou63/XL01_b507053430be1.jpg)


How would you go about sourcing decals?  :crazy2:
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: Lazarou on September 30, 2007, 12:19 AM
Heres another but still can't see the bridge very well....

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v432/Lazarou63/SMMD2-1.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 12:22 AM
It looks identical to this one although you can't see the brake bridge,

I dont think it looks the same. The blue one and the chome one have both got the brace at the BB, the Ebay one doesnt. Also, the Ebay ones downtube connects with the wider part of the headtube, the blue ones downtube is above the wider ring of the headtube. I might even say that the chrome one and blue one look like they have got double dropouts.

Non of this says the red one isnt a mad dog, just that its not the same as those. Ive got 4 early 1" dirtbikes that all have small differences to eachother!



Paul Green? What, whos Dad was in play girl?

Here he is at S&M in 94 (and it looks like Chris got enough money to get his Birkenstocks.

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/trips/warehouse2.jpg)



Heres another pic of Paul in 1991, he's in the background on his Blue dirtbike. Thats me looking all buff doing the blunt!

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/riding/blunt1991.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 12:24 AM
It looks identical to this one although you can't see the brake bridge, it also has some light blue at the top of the seat tube, was this an original colour too?


(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v432/Lazarou63/XL01_b507053430be1.jpg)


How would you go about sourcing decals?  :crazy2:

Have you got single or double dropouts on that bad boy?  Yes that is an original colour, who was that mexican looking kid that used to ride ofr S&M late eighties, Brian Hernandez?  He rode that colour.  I have some pictures somwhere of him jumping at the first ever US KOD in Rich Bartletts back yard....
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 12:26 AM
loads of early S&M questions can be answered here:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=4286225215
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: Lazarou on September 30, 2007, 12:28 AM
It looks identical to this one although you can't see the brake bridge, it also has some light blue at the top of the seat tube, was this an original colour too?


(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v432/Lazarou63/XL01_b507053430be1.jpg)


How would you go about sourcing decals?  :crazy2:

Have you got single or double dropouts on that bad boy? 


It's not mine! I wish! Alex would put my daughter through college for that!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 12:46 AM
Alex, Paul Green, ABA National, Lemoore, Norcal, 1989?  I love that guy, e-team all the way!!!
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/scan0043.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 12:57 AM
Alex, Paul Green, ABA National, Lemoore, Norcal, 1989?  I love that guy, e-team all the way!!!


Paul was S&M all the way, but when I saw him last he wasnt really riding at all and then he left S&M ... not sure why, or what he's doing now.

Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 01:13 AM
Alex, no way dude, I just clicked on that link you listed and found a picture of....ME!!!! That's me in the T-shirt, no way!  We did a bike test and when we got back to Wiz Pubs, they couldn't find a decent picture without me lurking in the background!!!! This was before photoshop so they just printed it and mentioned me in the caption. It was such an inside joke that Jive did a 'zine called flail and put me lurking on the cover too....that's just made my day mate!!!
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/f7571c1a.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/scan0044.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 01:23 AM
Thats f-ing brill. Doesnt it even say on the link, something like "S&M Fan in the background"?. Thats a strange pic. Chris' hand is way off the grip and just about hanging on the lever. You are looking a little strange back there Clive!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 01:28 AM
Yeah, something like that, just so mad!  That's a spike picture, jeeze, even with all the new fangled camera technology, I hardly ever see pics that good nowadays...

What an era eh?  Best days of our lives and all that......Looking strange how?  Look at those old pics of you you freak!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 01:35 AM
Spike Jones eh?


(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/spike.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: darkersomeday on September 30, 2007, 01:41 AM
spike jonze rocks :daumenhoch:


coincidences though eh?

i was looking for idea's for my sabbath build the other day and i see's this thing on an old NEC show and who should be there?

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g171/jarvicseven/IMG_6393.jpg)
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 01:43 AM
Yup, don't care if he's some big shot now, i used to go street riding with him and he was wicked on a bike, coupled with the fact that his shots are still an inspiration to me to this day!  Lew and Andy J were cool too, Wiz pubs used to have a house just around the corner from the office and I stayed there for like almost a month with Will and Glyn (the guy with that red mad dog) in about 88, just every day was amazing!  

Alex, this is becoming a habit mate, we need sleep!
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: gossa on September 30, 2007, 01:44 AM
Never seen that funny as fook, that torker was a dog........
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: SaMAlex on September 30, 2007, 01:47 AM
augh, that pic of the torker has made me feel sick ... im off to bed!!!  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: S&M Mad Dog?
Post by: dialledbikes on September 30, 2007, 08:34 AM
Alex, the Holmes with PAs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-90s-Vintage-S-M-BMX-bike_W0QQitemZ330170039853QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Still for sale.  I thought it had gone.

Mike, that is a later Holmes cos its a-head. All the parts look like they are period correct, including the first gen PAs. Very nice really. Im guessing as there are 6 days left, he relisted it. that is a high starting price, (although he might well get it)

I thought you might be more interested in it for the cranks than the frame.
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