RADBMX.CO.UK
New School BMX 2004 - Now => New School Racing => Topic started by: Zippy on June 01, 2009, 09:10 AM
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How much more for a bike /frame would you pay if it was built in the UK.
Also what's your perception of the 'Made in Britain' tag?
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Personally i wouldnt pay anymore... It doesnt make it any better.
Yes its good to keep the business in the Uk but how many UK frames companies still make their frames in the UK?
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It doesn't matter to me where a frame is built, I don't think guys from the UK are as myopic as our American Cousins when it comes to UK/US made frames.
Which I think is great on us, because most US guys would look twice at a Dialled bike, but they are far better than some of the US made cr@p out there.
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Only Curtis has the unique selling point of made in the UK and their frames cost around £450-£500. I appreciate everything that goes into making a Curtis frame but I'm not sure how much of that price tag can be attributed to quality (i.e. is it the best frame on the market for that price) and how much is buying into the Curtis ethos/kudos of owning a frame that was custom made especially for the buyer. Price tag will always be high because of economies of scale (i.e. one man making one frame at a time will never be able to compete on price against many men making hundreds of frames).
As much as I love the heritage of Curtis, if I was dropping £500 on a frame, it wouldn't be top of my list in terms of desirability (though my heart might rule my head and choose it anyway).
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Not really bothered where its made, as long as the frame/bike is good then you have no problems. :daumenhoch:
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i wouldn't thank you for a uk frame, after seeing kye forte rip the front off of pashleys and hearing bad things about curtis etc.
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I'd pay the same as S&M for a Curtis but other British makes would have to prove there quality first before I'd pay that much.
I got a 2005 Curtis 20" off eBay last year and it's a nice bike to ride but some of the tube line up on the rear triangle is interesting to say the least (but it is straight as a die when tightened up)
All pretty irrelavant though as I'm to tight to buy a new frame :LolLolLolLol:
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It might not be what the patriots want to hear, but Curtis BMX frames would be better made and cost less if they were made in the same factory as their outsourced MTB frames.
However, I know people who own Curtis' who are happy to accept something that's not quite perfect because they love the company, the roots, the ethos and what it stands for.
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after a lot of looking and trying many bikes ive just brought a standard cruiser frame and forks very very pleased with it it really is everything i wanted in a new frame it was between the standard a S&M and i dailed the dialed come a very close 2nd went for standard 1, quility of finish is outstanding 2 had a choice of top tubes and 3 colour choice do like it all colour coded lol being USA build and CRMO to me is what bmx is but each to there own its more finding what makes u happy cost does not always come in to it .
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This thread is touching on a previous thread that mentioned how we all pump our money into Taiwanese factories that stick US branded stickers on, and don't support the sport in our own country. ( Standard and S&M excluded from that comment )
Although None of those main stream brands have been mentioned so far. However supporting British based products can be discouragingly expensive.
Even if we bought an all Brit frame, would we then build it up with all Brit parts????? NO!
If there was an all British product that competed directly on price and quality with the likes of Standard and S&M then I would buy it.
But there isn't so I go next best and that would be Dialled :daumenhoch:
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for me, the 'MADE IN U.K.' does'nt mean much. i spent two years having a custom 24" frame built here. had 3 attempts, 2 from the same company. all were built wrong. one frame even had a twisted headtube. front wheel ran 1" off the centre line. finally went to Oz last year for it, and its not even perfect but i'm riding it now.
Taiwan all the way i say.
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I was lucky and bought my LTF from the states before the recent price increases, I adore the frame for various reasons but there is no way I would pay the current retail price for one as there's just loads of other great taiwan frames available at half the price that will ride equally as well and be equally as striong.
To answer the question I wouldn't pay anymore for a uk made frame.
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If the frame was spot on in all respects then I'd pay a premium but not double, unless I really liked the values of the guys involved.
I'd pay double for a custom fit frame - perhaps if I really couldn't find something already made. I'd be particularly keen if there was a "Chris King" ethos to the company, which is very hard to find in the cycling trade as a whole. I ride a mountain bike from a small US manufacturer because it represents the closest to what I want from a manufacturer. I haven't found that in BMX just yet. If they suddenly switched manufacturing to the east I'd be hard pressed to keep that mountain bike in my stable cos I'd feel like they sold out on the reasons I'd supported them in the first place: Their laborers are paid a fair wage, I'm supporting a small business not run by a greedy board of directors/shareholders and their product is spot on too - plus the owner is a rider.
I don't see that with frames made in the east, although I understand why entrepreneurs such as Mike has Dialled made out there, as did Brant with On-One - they can't get them made locally - and that's a real pity. To me it would make the whole load of difference to the value of the brand if it was and I'd have them in my stable already, but I see I'm in the minority. Let me make it clear - I like what Mike is doing and I liked the fact that Dibly gave it a go too. Kudos to them facing up to the large manufacturers.
A UK company that makes its frames in Taiwan or China are the same to me as any other US, European or Canadian brand - it's really an asian bike with different graphics - so I want to know what sets that bike apart from everything else from a company with a big marketing budget that purports to have "Soul" but is really a profit driven machine. I think it's almost unforgivable that all our manufacturing is farmed out to Taiwan and now China. The UK has little to fall back on now - all because we wanted stuff cheaper. I certainly think it wasn't about the lack of artisans in the UK was it? MRD, Rickman, Raleigh and others were UK made and made well.
Personally I'm drawn to the smaller companies run by guys with a history in & passion for the sport - OS aside as we collect & ride those for sentimental reasons mainly - plus I enjoy customizing my bikes (even my wife and kids bikes!) - because I want something I've had a hand in creating. Some think that's tosh but to me that adds value & personality - even though it costs me more in the long run the grin on my face is genuine.
So yeah I'd prefer to buy a "Made in Britain" frame for the same reasons I'd buy a "Made in USA" or "Made in Canada" frame cos that's the heart of the bike I'd be building.
My 3p.
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It is shocking to think that we lead the world in so many areas of engineering (motorsport for one), and have so many redundant manufacturing resources, yet we can't produce simple bike frames at a reasonable cost. I'm not criticising those manufacturers who farm out the work to Taiwan though- I'm in business myself, and if there's no bottom line at the end of the year, there's no business.
Having said that, having frames mass produced in the east is no guarantee of quality. GHP frames used to be made in the same factory as Crupi in Canada, and they were a quality item. Some time last year though production was moved to Taiwan and I was shown one of these new frames - the rear stays met the bottom bracket 1/4" out of line and the rear wheel was so misaligned that it was deemed unridable.
Over the last couple of years I've had frames from the east and North America. I've had a couple of Kuwaharas that have been a great product at a cheap price, but this year I invested in a UFO frame for my son (a small manufacturer from North America). I honestly can't fault it. The welding and finish is perfect, it's robust yet light as a feather. It may have cost more than twice what the whole Kuwahara bike had cost, but it is well worth it.
Would I have paid a little more if it was from a British manufacturer? I think so.
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Jamie, it must be light as you havn't drilled it yet :LolLolLolLol:
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..theres still time Andy! :daumenhoch:
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..... only from Santa Ana 8)
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when i think of 'made in britain' one thing always comes to mind, not from this industry but it somes up how i think about most british stuff, overpriced and piece of shit on the whole, they called it a rover!
on the other hand though, hidden nation and pashley frames were right up there with the best companies from from across the pond and similarly priced.
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on the other hand though, hidden nation and pashley frames were right up there with the best companies from from across the pond and similarly priced.
Agreed Phil. It's a pity more people didn't get behind them and actually buy the products.
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Love Curtis!
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I would buy a frame or parts that were :Great_Britain: made if the price wasnt much over a similar US made item,as long as the quality was a match to similar items made in any other country.
Trouble is because our govt doesnt support the very thing that made Britain great,the skills to produce bike frames etc have been lost,and lost forever :(
Everything these days is driven by cost with eveyone wanting the cheapest they can find,hence why most stuff is made in the far east.
These countries invest in manufacturing,and guess what,they are prospering ::), plus they have a good work ethic and dont think the world owes them a living,unlike workers in the UK.
I think if you were to manufacture in the Uk a range of parts,clothing etc would be needed as more profit could be made from these,supporting the costs of the company.
I dont think you could make much money from Uk made frames alone.
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how much of the price comes down to labour costs , the skill level is not in question but what does a professional welder get paid in the UK in comparison to Taiwan ? was this not the main issue before taiwan had the economies of scale.
bought my dialled 20" from mike and felt happy to do so , at least in a small way some of the money is staying in the sport at grass roots level as opposed to one of the american corporations , but that was an easy decision as its a quality frame at a reasonable price .
So what IS the material costs in an average frame ? , ie. how much to actually build it if you exclude design and shipping