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Events => Old School Series Racing => Topic started by: moley on October 29, 2009, 02:03 PM
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No more Brits for OS (except maybe a Charity/Novelty race, if we can be arsed).
We are still waiting for confirmation of this and trying to change their mind but they are an unelected commission who are a rule unto themselves so they wont listen so lets get on with it!!
The South region is allowing OS to race as a Novice type race. So no BC Silver Membership or racing license needed in the summer to race. Just the race fees on the day. Also the South have slashed their race fees to £5 from £10.
So what do you want to happen in the North in the summer?
At the moment in the Winter Series you dont need BC Silver Membership (£36) or Racing license (minimum) requirement to race but in the summer you would have needed to.
If the North are willing and we can drop the BC Membership requirement to race OS and just pay race fees.
Then I think that will be better for the North. Anyone who wants to race OS can dip in and out of OS and can do so without any worry.
The only other thing is the the race fees. I dont know how much of the £8 goes to BC. If all of the £8 goes to the North region and BC doesn't see one fookin penny then I'd be happy to still pay the £8 race fee and still get my series end trophy (if I complete 6 out of 8 races)
If BC let us us stage a Charity/Novelty race at the Brits then we can still do so but it will be an open class (so no qualifying) and RADBMX OS members can organise it as we see fit whenever BC decide to slot us in to race. Hopefully the Brits OS race fees would pay for the trophies and we could go around with a bucket to raise money, sell t shirts etc, etc............
I dont want to screw over the North Region as they have always (and still does) support OS. But I dont think anyone should pay BC for being excluded and not treated the same as any other class. Dont forget if you still plan to race other classes at National, regional and the brits then you'll still need BC membership!!
At the end of the day all we want to do is race.
Once we know what everyone wants to do then we'll put our suggestions to the North Regions!!
Suggestions, ideas and off the wall surreal comments wanted (Berm gags are optional but often appropriate and neccessary)
So what do you Northern Monkey's think? ???
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gets ya thinkin this 1 moley
but for some reason i cant see bc not letting us race without silver membership as they would lose a good chunk of dosh
if we can go our own way i think a good idea would be an old school committee with maybe 4 peaple nomonated by ourselves who can sort all things old school out
wat ya think molester
russ
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Ther answer is really simple.
We have our Brits at the Rad Bash each year. We make that our big event, like a one off old school British Championship.
No hassles and no over officialisation.
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gets ya thinkin this 1 moley
but for some reason i cant see bc not letting us race without silver membership as they would lose a good chunk of dosh
if we can go our own way i think a good idea would be an old school committee with maybe 4 peaple nomonated by ourselves who can sort all things old school out
wat ya think molester
russ
Its a good idea Russ!! And we can still do that!!
But the South Region has already sorted out the OS. No BC Membership required and they just pay races fees which they slashed to half price. Trophies are not included (I think).
I dont think the region wants to lose us and I dont want to race if its not at a regional either. I like atmosphere at North Regionals. But if we run our series with a few extra dates then we can have inter series races with the Scots, South and whoever.
If the south can let OS race without BC membership then the North should be able to as well.
How much of the £8 race fee does BC get (if any)?
Ther answer is really simple.
We have our Brits at the Rad Bash each year. We make that our big event, like a one off old school British Championship.
No hassles and no over officialisation.
The OS at MK is always gonna be the event of the season. That will never change!!
If they want us to race at the Brits and people want to do it then I dont see why not. At the end of the day it encourages other OS to join the fold. Just so long as BC dont get my money because they dont provide a fair and full service then I dont care putting on show for the baying crowds!! :daumenhoch:
RADBMX is the OS class. I have no problem putting on a show at the brits to everyone outside RADBMX as long as its on our terms and not BC's :)
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Some excellent points Ian.
I'm actually hoping that the BC may have a change of heart (unlikely but they may actually acknowledge our passion).
With the numbers we are now attracting in this ever popular 'class' we need to take things serious regards organising the series and setting down to some firm rules (without taking away the fun aspect).
I'm happy to help with any organising etc that needs doing on our behalf.
Dave
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Good ideas Ian,
I do think that the BC will still want the O/S boys to cough up some penny's, but if they can explain what value they will add to o/s racing in 2010 they I would love to here..... :uglystupid2:
I for one would gladly pay a little extra to the club (hopefully I'll make a few more races next year :'( ) to stage on o/s race that way I'd know my money was going to the local club and not to some twonks expense account..... :2gunsfiring_v1:
I also agree with Russ.......re: O/S should be rep'd by people who love O/S :daumenhoch:
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I wouldn't want to race outside of regionals.........unless it was an organised inter-series race etc, etc.
The Benefits of regionals is the organisation, food, toilets, atmosphere etc, etc and first aid!!
I just wonder how much money from Regional race fees go to the Region and how much BC make out of it!!
I'm all for supporting the regions. But if BC doesn't accept OS as an Expert class and treat us as such then how can they expect us to get Memberships when Novices dont have to!!
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I wouldn't want to race outside of regionals.........unless it was an organised inter-series race etc, etc.
The Benefits of regionals is the organisation, food, toilets, atmosphere etc, etc and first aid!!
I just wonder how much money from Regional race fees go to the Region and how much BC make out of it!!
I'm all for supporting the regions. But if BC doesn't accept OS as an Expert class and treat us as such then how can they expect us to get Memberships when Novices dont have to!!
Agree 200%... :daumenhoch:
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I'm all for supporting the regions. But if BC doesn't accept OS as an Expert class and treat us as such then how can they expect us to get Memberships when Novices dont have to!!
Thats spot on Ian.....thats what's peeing me off, the issue I have is they have just made a ruling without consulting the people involved.............and why has the BC got an issue with having O/S at the brits ?
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GENERAL RULES
2. BC Membership and Licensing
2.1. The following categories of events are open to any rider with or without BC membership:
2.1.1. Open races
2.1.2. Club races
2.1.3. Winter regionals
2.1.4. A maximum of 2 summer regionals if they have taken place before may have the current year
2.1.5. Novice racing at all regionals
APPENDIX 3 British Cycling BMX
Regional Series
1. Each Region will run a series of races each year to provide a Regional ranking structure and qualification to the British Championships (See Appendix 2)
2. BC BMX Rules for Regional Series
Racing.
2.1. Please note that it is not the intention of the BC BMX Commission to dictate to Regions how their Regional Series races are
organised or administered. However, a common minimum standard is deemed necessary and hence the following basic rules are to be applied.
2.2. To simplify the Regions administration of their racing it is recommended that they base their main classes on the British Championship classes.
2.3. Other classes such as Novice may be added but do not form part of the regional qualification to the British Championships.
2.4. From may have the current year, no rider will be allowed to compete in their Region’s Summer Race Series without a valid BC Silver or Gold membership. However, a rider without membership may ride in the Novice categories.
I think the North Region just has to say they are running OS as a Novice Class and BC can't do anything about it!!
Simple as that!! :)
But I still hope none of the race fees go to BC!! >:(
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But I still hope none of the race fees go to BC!! >:(
:daumenhoch:
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I think the North Region just has to say they are running OS as a Novice Class and BC can't do anything about it!!
Simple as that!! :)
Nail on the head there Moley, talk about BC shooting themselves in the foot or what.
Thats 2K+ a year less for them, who's going to pay for the bubbly at the AGM now??
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The most important thing to remember is that we all race for fun, end of. When officialdom starts becoming too much and overbearing the fun soon slips away.
You guy's up North have a fantastic series running and it would be great to see if we can get back to our old self down south. That's something I hope we can do.
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Nail on the head there Moley, talk about BC shooting themselves in the foot or what.
Thats 2K+ a year less for them, who's going to pay for the bubbly at the AGM now??
:2funny:
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The North has always supported us and treated us the same as any other class. Preston even Organised the OS Grands.
We are not going to do anything to upset the North Region. They treated us well and will continue to do so.
They will still get our Club Memberships fees (for those that use the clubs regularly) and our continued support.
The only difference is that OS should be reclassified as a Novice or Open Class race that just happens to be run beside the regionals.
If they are willing to officiate the OS at the regionals as per usual then I dont think any northern monkey would object to paying the £8 race fee if it includes a trophy for 6/8 rounds etc, etc.
............but if BC gets £1 then I'd like our race fee to be £7. It would begrudge me to pay them anything for no return. Although I might race Nationals one day if Flem can ever make me jump!!! :D
I'm not sure about Novice race fees but most novices are kids (except Nhoj whenhe raced at Bradford and got his ass whupped by a 13 year old novice), so I dont mind paying full race fees so long as the region gets the full amount!!
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Has anyone spoken to North region bmx?
Might be worth getting their views on how we proceed, as molask says ,they kind a like us ya know :)
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Dave is emailing Tina!!
I'm gonna be at Coppull so I'll have a chat with anyone who cares to listen!!
BC do not recognise OS as an Expert Class. If they did then we'd race at the Brits. Novice Class is for learning and moving up to Expert Class. So we're not Novice either.
The South has reclassifed OS as an Open Class. Open Classes do not need BC Membership. The fact it is run alongside a Regional shouldn't matter (I think) as BC dont organise or run Regionals.
The only thing to discuss is the race fee which no one oop north objects to (unless some goes to BC).
So I dont think there will be a problem!!
Anyone who wants to race OS can. Simple as that (I think.......................I hope!!).
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After reading all the posts and threads about the BC they sound like a right set of to55ers :2gunsfiring_v1:
I'll be glad to sting them where it hurts as they seem to want there cake and to eat it!
I'm more than happy to pay my race day subs to cover the costs for the clubs etc :daumenhoch:
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Dub, Dub, Rub a Dub!!
I agree!!!
Apart from the 2 races bit!!
If we are an open class then there is no need for BC membership or race licence!!
We'll put our case to the North region and see where we stand. It might take a while until their next committee meeting but hopefully it will get sorted.
At the moment it will just carry on as it is!!
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British Cycling don't get anything from regional race fees.
Roger Wilbraham loves Old Skool.
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British Cycling don't get anything from regional race fees.
Roger Wilbraham loves Old Skool.
Cheers Tony!! :daumenhoch:
We'll put it to the North Region and hopefully carry on as usual as an Open Class (with 1" and caliper restrictions etc, etc)!!
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i just hope the numbers continue to go up, and all this shite isnt puttin people off starting up again.
the north region clubs have been awesome, i would not begrudge a penny if race fees stay as they are, if trophys are not on the cards, then a little extra each time we raced (50p - £1?? whatever) to go into a pot for our own trophies shouldnt be begrudged either, still be alot cheaper in the long run.
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i just hope the numbers continue to go up, and all this shite isnt puttin people off starting up again.
the north region clubs have been awesome, i would not begrudge a penny if race fees stay as they are, if trophys are not on the cards, then a little extra each time we raced (50p - £1?? whatever) to go into a pot for our own trophies shouldnt be begrudged either, still be alot cheaper in the long run.
:daumenhoch:
We'll wait and see what happens with the North Region about an Open Class and BC Membership etc, etc as they'll have to discuss it between the clubs.
I dont think nowt will change apart from no BC fees. So it should work out cheaper for everyone and people will able to race the odd meet when the feeling takes them!! £8 race fee is cheap as chips for the amount of work the officials put in!!! :)
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i just hope the numbers continue to go up, and all this shite isnt puttin people off starting up again.
the north region clubs have been awesome, i would not begrudge a penny if race fees stay as they are, if trophys are not on the cards, then a little extra each time we raced (50p - £1?? whatever) to go into a pot for our own trophies shouldnt be begrudged either, still be alot cheaper in the long run.
+1
...it's putting me off :yahoo_silent:
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yeh
io cant be arsed either :2funny:
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A few people on this forum have little or no understanding of how regional BMX racing works right now.
Maybe that is why they have such a very poor opinion of the people that plan, stage and run races in the UK.
Here's a brief explaination of how it works in the South..
The Region is run entirely by volunteers, the same volunteers that run the clubs. (and the same volunteers that are the commission).
Race fees are the Regions only form of income.
Race fees are shared equally 50/50 between the Club and the Region.
The Club can spend the money on what it wishes.
The Region will pay for paramedics, payback, trophies, plates and shirts for the Brits, stationry and equipment (banners etc).
The Region intends to have no money left at the end of the season, it must all be ploughed back into the series one way or another.
I hope this is helpful, please don't take these people for granted, please stop and think before you put these people down, we need all the helpers we can get.
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...............please don't take these people for granted, please stop and think before you put these people down, we need all the helpers we can get.
No OS'er in the North has ever taken the Regional organisers for granted. The North region has always supported OS and has always encouraged us.
And we in turn have always supported our region and will continue to do so. That was never in doubt!! :daumenhoch:
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Tony is correct in what he is saying ..
No ones geting Rich out of this :2funny:
For example the money that Andover made at events this year , is now being invested , into the purchase of some scaffold poles !! That we are going to contruct some pens out off ..
I know the idea is to plough rest of the South money back in as Promo banners , Brits team shirts, etc etc ........
Again the Regional teams, who are in weekly contact with all the club contacts ... All do it for the love of the sport and a free sandwich :P
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I hope this is helpful, please don't take these people for granted, please stop and think before you put these people down, we need all the helpers we can get.
I'm struggling to fine the posts where anyone has "put these people down"....
The only anger and disillusionment is with the BCF for their bombastic decisions.
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:) Sure RVR can do something for you.We must be the only club in the land to still have a manual gate.(new gate/mech planned for the near future.)
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I hope this is helpful, please don't take these people for granted, please stop and think before you put these people down, we need all the helpers we can get.
I'm struggling to fine the posts where anyone has "put these people down"....
The only anger and disillusionment is with the BCF for their bombastic decisions.
There are plenty of examples, depends who you think makes these decisions and who you think BCF are.
It wasn't a decision of British Cycling to not include old school as a championship class next year, it was a decision made by the BMX commission.
The BMX commission are Mums and Dads, volunteers, the very same people that organise the regional races that you enjoy.
They're the people that you are putting down.
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I think the decision is wrong to include the OS in the Brits and then chuck us out a year later. But I understand why the Commission made its decision. I dont like it but I understand their point of view.
I have proposed to the North Region AGM for the OS Oop North to be re-catorgorized as an 'Open' class, as there is no age or gender restriction, 20 and 24" can be raced and the only limit is OS legality of the bike!!
In reality it is really more of an Open class than a Competitive class as it includes extremely old unfit Novices to experienced racers like Oggy at Crewe and doesn't fit recognised age/bike categories of a competitive class.
If the Brits want an OS Race to show off then I would help out if needed. And I will be attendance to film the Brits next year if people want me to. Hopefully I could have a nice place to film from so that I could film the entire track. I missed out on all of the 1st berm action. :(
So I have no problem with anyone!! I would welcome a few drinks with the commission at next years Brits (especially if they are buying)!! :daumenhoch:
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I think you've identified part of the problem Moley, you could in theory have 40 year old men racing 6 year old girls, a nightmare for the health and safety brigade. and I can't think of any other sports where this would be possible.
In 2007 at Burnham Brits, there were children riding new school bikes in the old school class, but no-one seemed to mind because it was a fun race and it was for charity, that wouldn't have gone down too well this year at Cheddar though, because turning it into a championship class will make it more competitive, naturally.
Do you have an adult age band in your regs? Might be an idea.
(edit) Sorry to go off topic.
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Do you have an adult age band in your regs? Might be an idea.
Good idea!!
Adults 17+ maybe!!
Its something to think about!!
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What's the latest with this?
I'll be doing some OS races in 2010, particularly whichever regionals I can get to.
I'll probably have to sell my cruiser to get a reasonable OS bike so would I be okay to ride an OS bike at club races where there's no OS offered?
Would I need BCF membership if I never race as an expert at regionals etc?
ta, Jon
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What's the latest with this?
I'll be doing some OS races in 2010, particularly whichever regionals I can get to.
I'll probably have to sell my cruiser to get a reasonable OS bike so would I be okay to ride an OS bike at club races where there's no OS offered?
Would I need BCF membership if I never race as an expert at regionals etc?
ta, Jon
I wrote a letter to BC Commission and have talked to Roger Wilbraham on the phone.
If there is an Old Skool Class at regionals then the same rules apply for any expert class. After the 1st of May or after the first 2 summer regionals (so long as they are before the 1st May) then you need a BC Silver Membership + FREE Provisional Racing License. And that also includes the South's decision to make OS a Novice Class. Roger said that they aren't allowed to do that.
He said Old Skool wouldn't be at the Brits and wouldn't be reinstated due to (basically) only 2 regions having an Old Skool Class. Whether that would change in the future if other regions have regular and healthy gates of OS, I dont know but I doubt it.
Maybe in a couple of years time and OS is taken up by nearly all regions and are regularly pulling in 16 riders per meet then maybe we could force our way back in. It not worth bothering about the moment. If it happens then so be it. If it doesn't then they are the ones' missing out!!
OS is an expert class so you will still be able to race OS to gain qualification to race at the Brits in whatever class your eligible for (Masters, Veterans, Cruiser etc, etc).
The only way to avoid the BC Membership fee is have OS at Club meets instead of regionals. You could then work out a race calendar based on 8 events (or 10 including Heywood's and both Leeds Tracks) from club meets. You'd only then pay the £3 or £4 club entry fee. Also if no one liked a Track then they could drop it from the series and have 2 at sunny Hartlepool instead etc, etc.
I personally dont want to do this because I like the atmosphere of regional events and club meets are not the same craic. But thats the only way to do it if you want to avoid the BC Membership fees.
I threw an idea about the OS Grands at Preston to Roger. Until the Summer Series Race calendar is available then these ideas can't be discussed because they would need approval from the North Region and Preston Club etc, etc and I have no authority over this event as it was just an idea thrown at Roger. I'll wait until the Dates are confirmed and then propose the idea which would be of benefit to the casual OS rider and see if its approved.
Thats about!! Nothing changed. I didn't think they would.
I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks about the Club meets instead of Regionals.
My vote is for Regionals!! Better craic, bigger attendances, more spectacular!! :daumenhoch:
.............but more costly..................but hey...........I'm worth it!! :D
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as it is is cool with me, i think club meet dates may be a little unpredictable and i need plenty of notice ::)
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Im with you Moley, stick with the regionals - good news about still being able to qualify for the brits - we should all opt to ride a N/S bike for a tussle at the brits.
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I've haven't been to a club meet but my vote goes to Regionals.
Regionals have a great atmoshere and (i'm guessing) the facilites are better with St. Johns, burger vans etc. The reduced fees for club meets isn't a factor - when I'd be spending £20-30 on petrol anyway the saving would be negligable.
I don't have a BC licence at the moment but I have no objections to paying for one when I need to - there are benefits to having one, such as insurance etc...
Old School needs new (old) riders joining all the time. This best achieved when the OSS is most visable, at regional not club events.
I'd like to see all clubs having an old school gate anyway, in addition to an OSS series at Regional level
REGIONALS get my vote :daumenhoch:
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I agree, lets stick with the regionals and if you qualify for the brits and really want to ride your OS, do it in whatever class available, would love the look on some of their faces >:D
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Sounds good for the regionals - I was mainly checking that I didn't pay out for what I didn't need.
It's very unlikely I'd want to go to the 'proper' brits but an alt version at MK would be ace I reckon, camping, refreshments etc. :daumenhoch:
Jon
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You only need a BC Silver Membership for Summer regionals after 1st May or after the first 2 summer regionals (whichever is sooner).
So dont do anything yet until the Summer Series!! :daumenhoch:
I think memberships is half price from the 1st July (I could be wrong though)
MK is the true British OS Championships.
Hopefully the OS Grands at Preston will get bigger too!! :daumenhoch:
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Regionals for me :daumenhoch:
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I wondered if anyone has had any further thoughts or ideas on this subject?
The regional races are great and have the right sort of big race feel and atmosphere to them. However I do feel that BCF are basically taking the p1ss with the money they take from us compared to what we get out of it. I'm more than happy to support the individual clubs and regions that DO seem to give a stuff about OS, and novice riders for that matter.
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It's apparent that very little of the money we give to BCF is gonna be used to support BMX anyway http://www.bmxtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29361&start=20 (http://www.bmxtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29361&start=20) :tickedoff:
There are plenty of club/open races, MK11, Bob Fields Grands, and other one-off races like the Beaverbrooks BMX chamionships at Lytham that probably DON'T require a BCF sliver license. Could we put together an unofficial series from these events in the future?
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What exactly does one receive from the BCF, in terms of support reflected in ones racing?
.....absolutely fooking none. Nothing at all.
Having injured myself considerably at one of their sanctioned events, I received absolutely nothing in terms of support following this event. They were either unaware, or not interested.
The next I heard from them, approximately one year later, was a letter/email which began to the effect;
"We hope your 2009 season has been a success, and it is now time to renew your licence"
.....so what purpose does this BCF membership actually serve? Do the North Region tracks see any of this revenue?
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The Feds are a disgrace to BMX,both OS and newschool.We`ve had a BC development knob attend one of our club meetings once,his input was a big fat zilch.... :2gunsfiring_v1: