RADBMX.CO.UK
Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: paullightowler on November 26, 2009, 09:21 PM
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Hi Guys,
I have had a load of help and advice on this frame (you know who you are guys, thanks)
I thought i would post it up for some comments (all are welcome)
Gonna get it restored and i was thinking of white with new decals ?
I have been told its a Californian full cromo, maybe a prototype because of the dropouts.
It also weighs the same as a Supergoose/ touch lighter but does not have 3 holes in the brake bridge and has the thinner rear triangle tubing.
The stickers are repop by the guy i bought off so ignore them.
Can anybody give a definative answer on reading the serial number.
Cheers all
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1713.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1714.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1715.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1716.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1717.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1722.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ss186/paullightowler/100_1723.jpg)
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That date is right on the change over from Gusset goose to Non Gusset goose.
April 1983.
Here's mine but it is a very late gusset model
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/mg7-1.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/p191/carpcrazyox/brake6.jpg)
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Cheers
Anybody seen those kind of rear dropouts before ?
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I've chatted with Paul about this frame both via PM on here and on vintage - my 2 peneth for what it's worth :
1. The lack of additional holes in the brake bridge and thinner rear tubing mean it is not a standard USA supergoose 3
2. The dae means it is too early to be a UK supergoose
3. The fact that it is so early and yet so light and the position were the seat stays meet the seat tube should rule out a tri-moly cali
4. The dropouts are different to 83 cali and supergoose frames
Conclusion - fook knows :LolLolLolLol:
It's earlier than any other recorded californian frame that's registered with vintagemongoose.com and yet does not share the rear tube geometry of a super and then there's those dropouts.
My final thoughts were that it could be a cali prototype :)
Whatever it is..... it is quite unique and i would leave it in it's original chrome to keep it as original as poss :daumenhoch:
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John
I did believe you mate, but i had to post it as i was excited by your comments.
The guys at vintage mongoose said very similar.
I had a good chat with Neil about what to do with the frame but now you have really thrown a spanner in the works !!!!!
;) ;) ;) ;)
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:LolLolLolLol:
Always good to get as many opinions as possible Paul - especially on such an unusual frame ;)
I really wouldn't re-finish it mate, it would be a crime in my opinion.
I'd rather buy you another cali to play with and buy this one off you just to preserve it mate - and that's the truth :daumenhoch:
But at the end of the day bud - it's yours to do what you want with ;)
Back on the topic of the dropouts, the only thing they even look close to out of the mongoose range are the mongoose "twofour" cruiser dropouts - similar angle and shape but 3 holes rather than 2 and without that slight "dip" in the top of the plate. :-\
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:coolsmiley: i love a goose
that one needs loving and cherishing, no idea what it is though :LolLolLolLol:
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Could be a custom frame specced for a factory rider, would be a shame to lose the original chrome on a unique frame like that.
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Gotta agree with bobafett - that should be preserved.
I'm sure Mongoose did this sort of thing knowing that 25 years later people would be confused!
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I'd have to listen to these boys if I were you. It sounds like you've something potentially a bit special there.
I'm sure there's folk on here who could do wonders on the original chrome to bring it back to life :daumenhoch:
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Right then.........
It's been a while since this was first posted up but, Paul, I have finally identified your dropouts and............
They are blue max ones ! :shocked:
They are the dropouts found on the late 82 - 83 iron cross gusset blue max frames.
What they are doing on a cali frame dated April 83 fook knows ! I can only now assume that it was a welder's error BITD as he grabbed the wrong dropouts during a very early production run of the calis.
And therefore a freak frame ! Very unique :LolLolLolLol:
But they're deffo 82/83 gusset blue max frame dropouts - take a look........
Same shallow step down in the top plate and downward angle of the axle slot ;)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/1.jpg)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/2.jpg)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/3.jpg)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/4.jpg)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/5.jpg)
(http://www.jpdeane.com/BMX/bluemax/83dropout/6.jpg)
PS...........
How's the resto coming along ?
Are you keeping it as a survivor frame ? What did you decide in the end mate ?
:daumenhoch:
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Great work Holmes :daumenhoch:
Are you saying it's effectively an Iron Cross gusset Blue Max without the gusset or am I reading it wrong? ???
Whatever it is :shocked:
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Nice unusual frame mate :4_17_5:
Did you heed 'jongoose's and other radsters advice and keep the chrome ???
John , how many late nights have you had trying to work this one out :LolLolLolLol: Knew you would get there in the end ;)
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Are you saying it's effectively an Iron Cross gusset Blue Max without the gusset or am I reading it wrong? ???
Well....
The way the rear stays meet the top of the seat tube is closer to a how gusset bluemax than that of a cali of the same era as well so I guess effectively it's like the rear triangle is from an 83 gusset blue max and the front triangle is from a cali !
Prototype frame ?
Welder's mistake ?
Either way that's what it's made up of ;)
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Great investagative work there Mr Fett! :daumenhoch:
Now, someone make sure this "CaliMax" is cared for.
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Now, someone make sure this "CaliMax" is cared for.
"CaliMax" LOL ! I like that :LolLolLolLol:
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good spot john :daumenhoch:
you can sleep again at nights now :LolLolLolLol:
well until the next case comes along >:D
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Umm, This frame is a 1984 Blue Max.
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775 (http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775)
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Umm, This frame is a 1984 Blue Max.
http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775 (http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/bmx_products_inc/7775)
Yep but that one has the standard step down dropouts like on a cali (i.e. deeper step down in the top plate of the dropout and axle slot is parallel to the ground not angled down)
;)
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Yep I see that now. I'm guessin being the changover model in 83 it has the gussett model dropouts on a no-gussett frame. Sweet!
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I was just looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/80s-MONGOOSE-M-1-BMX-Expert-Looptail-Torker-GT_W0QQitemZ150406907121
To my untrained eye there seems to be some similarities. The Serial stamp being an obvious issue.
What do you think? :-\
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I was just looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/80s-MONGOOSE-M-1-BMX-Expert-Looptail-Torker-GT_W0QQitemZ150406907121
To my untrained eye there seems to be some similarities. The Serial stamp being an obvious issue.
What do you think? :-\
Looking closer it's a different shape :D
Scrap that :-X
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Looking closer it's a different shape :D
Scrap that :-X
:LolLolLolLol:
Yep standard "step down" drop outs on that bud - with the axle slot parallel to the ground ;)
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Wow what a response !!!!!
John, you lived up to your reputation as king of all things mongoose !
So... What is it for definate and how unusual or have I got just some strange cock up ?
I have been collecting parts and getting some wheels refurbed, new Suzue hubs, Asahi etc
Got an original Mongoose stem and cranks, pro class bars etc etc.
I havnt done anything with the frame yet as I want to get it right.
The chrome is in bad shape so I am tempted to get it re chrome but still not sure !
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leave it :knuppel2:
survivor all the way mate :)
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So... What is it for definate and how unusual or have I got just some strange cock-a-doodle-do up ?
For definite ? Who knows........... Without further examples the same as this I'd have to say it is either a prototype that slipped out to the general public or just a welding cock-up BITD either way..........RARE !
How did you say you came about the frame ? Can you trace back any further with a previous owner ?
The chrome is in bad shape so I am tempted to get it re chrome but still not sure !
I would try some of the restoration techniques on here to bring some life back to the chrome and then build it up.
You'd be surprised how good a survivor frame can looked with fresh decals & padset surounded by a nice selection of parts.
At the end of the day what have you got to lose ? Build it as a survivor and if you are really unhappy with the end results it's cost you nothing but an extra set of decals - you could then re-chrome it if you felt it was absolutely necessary.
But for me it should be left as a survivor.
My biggest broblem would be chosing mongoose or blue max decals :-X :LolLolLolLol:
Maybe a mongoose down tube decal and gusset blue max chain stay decals :shocked: ;D
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Blue max cali style frame with drop down drop outs
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/jj239/bmxbob/newmong6.jpg)
:daumenhoch:
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Yep - they're the standard step down dropouts on that one bud :daumenhoch: