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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: Andyboy77 on July 19, 2017, 10:53 PM
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Hi everybody,
recently I purchased a '91 Haro Sport Platinum. From the pics of the original for sale-add I could already tell that this may/will be a lot of work. In terms of condition I would give it a 3 out of 10.
The seller offered right away to refund me fully if I may change my mind on keeping it. On one hand it is nice to know not to loose any money, but on the other hand I'd really like to give a propper resto a go here.
I've already had a look at the museum page and just found two of this '91 Sport in that very colour. Not many of them seem to be about. Our Ed brought that to my attention a month ago.
By having a look at the 1991 haro cataloque, I found out this version which came with Araya 48's was available in two colour schemes:
- Neon Lime frame and black forks
- Platinum frame and black forks
This '91 Sport also has been available with a black frame and neon red forks, but this version came with mags.
That's pretty much all I know up until now. Exept, many tricks we know today have been invented by Mat Hoffman on one of these bikes. I remember seeing 'Head First' for first time back then, and instantly falling in love with that awesome pink bike someone of the protagonists rode in that movie.
To put this in the right perspective, I know it's easy to put a thread up and just ask instead of doing ones homework first. I'm not too lazy in order to gather more infos on this bike but I feel totally lost as I don't know where to start.
The cataloque and the museum-site seem pretty useless so far - or I just didn't find the right threads yet.
On here I found a thread about serial numbers and models (Sport, Master etc.) referring to Old School Haros, but I couldn't find anything like that for the later Mid School models (or did I just missed that???). If there are more threads with valid infos on here or elsewhere, I'd be deeply grateful if you could drop the links in the comments. :) I also would highly appreciate, if you could tell me about several parts you may recognise in the pictures below. :bow: :bow: :bow:
Although this has more of a secondary importance to me, as I may find out more detalied infos on those parts (disk, cranks etc.) over time.
My dilemma: or to put it with other words - what are your thoughts?
- The frame itself has a lot of marks and scratches. The pre owner defo rode the crap out of this thing. The right chainstay has deep marks, probably due to a lot of sliding. The srew on pegs don't look much better either.
(pictures of these two issues will be up tomorrow)
All the dropouts still look really good though. The Araya 48's should be still fine - will know after cleaning 'em up.
- Especially the condition of the frame is giving me a hard time, because I'm not sure if the rusty bits can be saved or not???
I've seen a couple of radsters doing magic things regarding frame repairs, so I'm assuming or hoping there's something that possibly could be done about it. But I have zero experience in what tools to use, what kind of preperation needs to be done at the outset, and how to do the filling. Also, what do I use to fill the holes so that the powder will stick. Recently I've read something regarding powder will not stick at places where the filling was done. Is this true?
- If I go for a frame repair, should I get it re-powdered then too or just use touch up paint at the repaired areas?
As I mentioned above, when Ed told me how rare these Platinum Sports are he also said I shouldn't do anything to it because there aren't many of 'em still around.
Please help me, by pointing me to the right dircection. As you can tell from these (way to many ;D) words, I don't want to start a resto like this and running into the risk of screwing it up badly, just due to it all beeing beyond my skill levels. Don't know if this is the right bike for a trail and error approach.
Any hint, advise and what else you have on offer will be highly appreciated. :)
Here are the pictures:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/r6zo6p.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1y4met.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2hf6xdw.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/23szwht.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2lcspxz.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/d45cz.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2isdz49.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/6gzz7s.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2jayhxz.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2lbhwxs.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/dp8gew.jpg)
The area that will decide it's future: :'(
(http://i67.tinypic.com/xbaavr.jpg)
Many thanks for reading! :daumenhoch:
Andy
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Doesn't look too bad at all that Andy. You'd be amazed what difference a decent citric bath will do for the rusty bits....
All depends what you want, blingy show bike or proper nice survivor ride you can use & enjoy..
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
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I was expecting to see a right rusty heap, mangled and bent beyond repair! I see no real issues restoring this (and I have little skills compared to some of the chaps on here) back to a good looking ride-able bike again. As Chubby says, it depends if you want it show looking or survivor? As for the rusty area under the seat post area, get the paint off that area and check how bad it really is, it could be nothing to worry about. Have a good weekend scrubbing and polishing and that will come up a gem. Good luck :daumenhoch:
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Lovely these Andy. I bought mine a few years ago as NOS and loved it. Very few come up, looks like a good score :daumenhoch:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/yy339/thewinsta/IMG_1182-1.jpg) (http://s805.photobucket.com/user/thewinsta/media/IMG_1182-1.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/yy339/thewinsta/IMG_1185.jpg) (http://s805.photobucket.com/user/thewinsta/media/IMG_1185.jpg.html)
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Citric acid bath and clean her up Andy. You can do a full resto anytime but it will only be survivor once!!!
Some bikes can be too far gone to run as a clean survivor and a full resto makes sense but I think that will clean up a treat :daumenhoch:
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Have a prod at that rust under the platform brace & see if it's still solid under there. :daumenhoch:
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Great find Andy - hope you can keep it original if possible
I'd be slightly hesitant to run those tyres at 100 PSI now though :teef:
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Doesn't look too bad at all that Andy. You'd be amazed what difference a decent citric bath will do for the rusty bits....
All depends what you want, blingy show bike or proper nice survivor ride you can use & enjoy..
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
I was expecting to see a right rusty heap, mangled and bent beyond repair! I see no real issues restoring this (and I have little skills compared to some of the chaps on here) back to a good looking ride-able bike again. As Chubby says, it depends if you want it show looking or survivor? As for the rusty area under the seat post area, get the paint off that area and check how bad it really is, it could be nothing to worry about. Have a good weekend scrubbing and polishing and that will come up a gem. Good luck :daumenhoch:
Have a prod at that rust under the platform brace & see if it's still solid under there. :daumenhoch:
Many thanks for your replies!
The rusty area around the seat tube actually shows a hole at the left hand-side of the seat tube yet.
(https://s5.postimg.org/y5glr0udj/SNV33899_lighter_close_up.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y5glr0udf/)
I've never tried a citric acid bath yet, but I expect the other side to turn out quite the same once the citric acid has done it's magic.?. ???
Regarding the level of restoration, I think Clint was spot on by saying "...it will only be a survivor once" .
The idea of doing a full resto at a later time sounds very appealing to me. But if I understood this correctly, as soon as I do a repair (filling) and using a little touch up paint, it won't be survivor anymore? Or is it "allowed" to do a repair as long as I only take care of that seat tube area and not stripping it entirely?
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Lovely these Andy. I bought mine a few years ago as NOS and loved it. Very few come up, looks like a good score :daumenhoch:
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/yy339/thewinsta/IMG_1182-1.jpg) (http://s805.photobucket.com/user/thewinsta/media/IMG_1182-1.jpg.html)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/yy339/thewinsta/IMG_1185.jpg) (http://s805.photobucket.com/user/thewinsta/media/IMG_1185.jpg.html)
Wow Mark! I recently saw a nos f&f-set listed on the bay. Now as I spotted the tiny decal at the head tube saying MADE IN TAIWAN, this seems to be true and not just a funny little decal.
Nice to know.
Do you still have it, and are you planning on getting it build up?
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To my mind Andy, doing a little running repair shouldnt affect its "survivor" status, you are just adding another layer of history to the bike.
It may sound a bit daft but i quite like the idea of just sticking some chewing gum over the hole. Its the kinda rolling repair we would have done as kids bitd to spot water getting in :D
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Great find Andy - hope you can keep it original if possible
I'd be slightly hesitant to run those tyres at 100 PSI now though :teef:
Thanks mate! fistblump I'll try my very best to keep the vibe it has now, but the holes at the seat tube area are giving me a headache still.
Let's see what further recommendations may be like, to make this decision easier for me. All my german mates unanimously said ( 9 out of 9 ) "Gone!" .."forgett it!" ...maybe they don't know about the magic household items can do. :teef:
As I'm not a heavy kid I can afford to run my tires about 45 psi. First inspenction wasn't showing any cracks or seriously dried up areas. :daumenhoch:
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To my mind Andy, doing a little running repair shouldnt affect its "survivor" status, you are just adding another layer of history to the bike.
It may sound a bit daft but i quite like the idea of just sticking some chewing gum over the hole. Its the kinda rolling repair we would have done as kids bitd to spot water getting in :D
"..adding another layer of history" is encouraging. Thanks Clint, that was helpful regarding my decision. :daumenhoch:
Getting a small swimming pool and some citric acid is the plan now. Is it E330 (citric acid)?
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Not sure, always just bought the food grade stuff off the bay
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Not sure, always just bought the food grade stuff off the bay
Then it is E330. :daumenhoch: Thanks!
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Wow Mark! I recently saw a nos f&f-set listed on the bay. Now as I spotted the tiny decal at the head tube saying MADE IN TAIWAN, this seems to be true and not just a funny little decal.
Nice to know.
Do you still have it, and are you planning on getting it build up?
[/quote]
Sadly had to sell it when I moved to Australia in 2013 mate. Strangely it was bought on the Bay by a guy in Oz, who then put it back up on the Bay for 3 times what he paid for it. Funniest bit was when he tried selling it on OZBMX and I commented on the price hike. He didn't realise I was the same guy that sold it to him and had followed it to Australia ;D
It was built up and ridden, I have a pic somewhere if I can find it....
Enjoy the restoration!
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Wow Mark! I recently saw a nos f&f-set listed on the bay. Now as I spotted the tiny decal at the head tube saying MADE IN TAIWAN, this seems to be true and not just a funny little decal.
Nice to know.
Do you still have it, and are you planning on getting it build up?
Sadly had to sell it when I moved to Australia in 2013 mate. Strangely it was bought on the Bay by a guy in Oz, who then put it back up on the Bay for 3 times what he paid for it. Funniest bit was when he tried selling it on OZBMX and I commented on the price hike. He didn't realise I was the same guy that sold it to him and had followed it to Australia ;D
It was built up and ridden, I have a pic somewhere if I can find it....
Enjoy the restoration!
[/quote]
Interestingly it is up for sale again from a guy in OZ. :crazy2: It is listed as NOS (nerver build). He's asking 2100,- for it. :shocked: Seems to be a bit beyond the usual going rate ;D
...and thanks mate - this will be my first time doing a resto of that extent.
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It was built up and ridden, I have a pic somewhere if I can find it....
Found these in my photobucket (so have downloaded them and uploaded them directly)
Almost exactly 5 years ago!
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Doesn't look too bad at all that Andy. You'd be amazed what difference a decent citric bath will do for the rusty bits....
All depends what you want, blingy show bike or proper nice survivor ride you can use & enjoy..
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
I was expecting to see a right rusty heap, mangled and bent beyond repair! I see no real issues restoring this (and I have little skills compared to some of the chaps on here) back to a good looking ride-able bike again. As Chubby says, it depends if you want it show looking or survivor? As for the rusty area under the seat post area, get the paint off that area and check how bad it really is, it could be nothing to worry about. Have a good weekend scrubbing and polishing and that will come up a gem. Good luck :daumenhoch:
Have a prod at that rust under the platform brace & see if it's still solid under there. :daumenhoch:
Many thanks for your replies!
The rusty area around the seat tube actually shows a hole at the left hand-side of the seat tube yet.
(https://s5.postimg.org/y5glr0udj/SNV33899_lighter_close_up.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y5glr0udf/)
I've never tried a citric acid bath yet, but I expect the other side to turn out quite the same once the citric acid has done it's magic.?. ???
Regarding the level of restoration, I think Clint was spot on by saying "...it will only be a survivor once" .
The idea of doing a full resto at a later time sounds very appealing to me. But if I understood this correctly, as soon as I do a repair (filling) and using a little touch up paint, it won't be survivor anymore? Or is it "allowed" to do a repair as long as I only take care of that seat tube area and not stripping it entirely?
I could tell it looked a bit rotten there! Ideally all that needs to be addressed as the rust will get worse & affect even more of the metal around it. I think I would go for a proper localised repair, or at the very least get it cleaned up & treated to stop it getting any worse :daumenhoch:
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Found these in my photobucket (so have downloaded them and uploaded them directly)
Almost exactly 5 years ago!
[/quote]
Awesome, what a great roadtrip that was. Our bikes were in love :surprise:
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looks like there is enough steel left on the seat brace to weld to, once the rust has been removed , should fill in with weld ok, or pack it and braze it :daumenhoch:
if your not having it repowdered , easy option would be rub down /remove the rust and treat the area and the inside of the brace with rust conveter then fill with a chemical metal type filler :daumenhoch:
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looks like there is enough steel left on the seat brace to weld to, once the rust has been removed , should fill in with weld ok, or pack it and braze it :daumenhoch:
if your not having it repowdered , easy option would be rub down /remove the rust and treat the area and the inside of the brace with rust conveter then fill with a chemical metal type filler :daumenhoch:
Thanks for your reply. :coolsmiley:
I won't have it repowdered for now, 'cause the overall condition isn't too bad actually - at least as far as I can tell up 'till now.
Is the use of rust converter meant as an alternative to the citric acid? Or would you recommend to give her a bath anyway and just use a rust converter to aviod it getting worse? (..like fugazi mentioned)
Just in case I decide getting it repowdered later on, what would be the appropriate metal type filler so the powder will stick?
Thanks in advance! :)
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Great project that Andy :daumenhoch:
If it were mine I'd be grinding that rust out with a dremel, and filling with weld, but defo not re painting the whole bike.
Gonna keep my eye on the progress of this :coolsmiley:
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Great project that Andy :daumenhoch:
If it were mine I'd be grinding that rust out with a dremel, and filling with weld, but defo not re painting the whole bike.
Gonna keep my eye on the progress of this :coolsmiley:
Thanks Lee! ;) Also thanks for the hint with that dremel. Slowly but surely I'm getting a clearer vision of how this is done propperly. :daumenhoch:
I'm planning on just using touch up paint. The funny thing I recognised this morning was, my first car (Fiat Uno) has had that same colour as this Sport.
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Doesn't look too bad at all that Andy. You'd be amazed what difference a decent citric bath will do for the rusty bits....
All depends what you want, blingy show bike or proper nice survivor ride you can use & enjoy..
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
I was expecting to see a right rusty heap, mangled and bent beyond repair! I see no real issues restoring this (and I have little skills compared to some of the chaps on here) back to a good looking ride-able bike again. As Chubby says, it depends if you want it show looking or survivor? As for the rusty area under the seat post area, get the paint off that area and check how bad it really is, it could be nothing to worry about. Have a good weekend scrubbing and polishing and that will come up a gem. Good luck :daumenhoch:
Have a prod at that rust under the platform brace & see if it's still solid under there. :daumenhoch:
Many thanks for your replies!
The rusty area around the seat tube actually shows a hole at the left hand-side of the seat tube yet.
(https://s5.postimg.org/y5glr0udj/SNV33899_lighter_close_up.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y5glr0udf/)
I've never tried a citric acid bath yet, but I expect the other side to turn out quite the same once the citric acid has done it's magic.?. ???
Regarding the level of restoration, I think Clint was spot on by saying "...it will only be a survivor once" .
The idea of doing a full resto at a later time sounds very appealing to me. But if I understood this correctly, as soon as I do a repair (filling) and using a little touch up paint, it won't be survivor anymore? Or is it "allowed" to do a repair as long as I only take care of that seat tube area and not stripping it entirely?
I could tell it looked a bit rotten there! Ideally all that needs to be addressed as the rust will get worse & affect even more of the metal around it. I think I would go for a proper localised repair, or at the very least get it cleaned up & treated to stop it getting any worse :daumenhoch:
Hi Andy first of all I don't no anything about restoring but if you do nice on
I thought you may find this interesting I'm in the middle of a restoration my self and the frame numbers are close (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/44e5ee5b83fda2345bb895f84c329700.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/e12e3baa3402ac5afa593c81ca92cfcf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/cc449a26355f198c15e7c54b405b7e7c.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Hi Andy first of all I don't no anything about restoring but if you do nice on
I thought you may find this interesting I'm in the middle of a restoration my self and the frame numbers are close (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/44e5ee5b83fda2345bb895f84c329700.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/e12e3baa3402ac5afa593c81ca92cfcf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/cc449a26355f198c15e7c54b405b7e7c.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hi Ian, a nice frameset too - I like the orange forks. Looks like we both have 1990 made frames. :daumenhoch:
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citric acid bath , or oxallic acid bath , will remove all the crud but more importantly the loose rust, both outside and inside the frame without damaging the paint or stickers, dry out the frame well and then treat with a rust converter on the outside and rust inhibiter inside the tubes, Note, i would test the rust converters if you use one with the paint on the frame , sometimes the converters will work as a solvent on paint so be carefull, :daumenhoch:
as to the chemical metal filler , it's actually called that, get it from car shops etc but there are a few on the market ,
note..... i put "if your not having it powdered" use chemical metal type filler, however if you are thinking of having it powder coated you should consider ..... powder coating involves baking the parts in an oven , so temperature may be an issue with the filler, best to check with the powder coaters as to what they recomend , i would think most would recomend braze or lead filling only? or they may use a particular high temp filler? as always on here, SBD is man to ask
tbh any one half decent with a mig welder could sort those holes in about 5 mins then your covered whichever way you go with the paint :daumenhoch:
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citric acid bath , or oxallic acid bath , will remove all the crud but more importantly the loose rust, both outside and inside the frame without damaging the paint or stickers, dry out the frame well and then treat with a rust converter on the outside and rust inhibiter inside the tubes, Note, i would test the rust converters if you use one with the paint on the frame , sometimes the converters will work as a solvent on paint so be carefull, :daumenhoch:
as to the chemical metal filler , it's actually called that, get it from car shops etc but there are a few on the market ,
note..... i put "if your not having it powdered" use chemical metal type filler, however if you are thinking of having it powder coated you should consider ..... powder coating involves baking the parts in an oven , so temperature may be an issue with the filler, best to check with the powder coaters as to what they recomend , i would think most would recomend braze or lead filling only? or they may use a particular high temp filler? as always on here, SBD is man to ask
tbh any one half decent with a mig welder could sort those holes in about 5 mins then your covered whichever way you go with the paint :daumenhoch:
Fantastic stuff! Thanks a lot for your help. :4_17_5: That's a lot of new background info to me.
I will get a babypool and the citric acid possibly by the end of next week. :daumenhoch: I'll also try to send SBD a message to ask him for the correct filler.
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Survivors have soul.
All this bike needs is a clean and a tidy ... deffo not a repaint ... that would kill it.
You need to 'Gunk' off all the oil and grease before a citric bath ... anything with rust on you can put in ... no decals will be harmed.
Your 'bath' needs to take your biggest part ( frame ) then you can fill up with other bits around it ... if theres space put in bricks to fill the gaps then the mixture doesn't have to be as diluted.
I usually use a whole 500g bag in a frame sized bath ... get the water as hot as you can to start with. Leave it 24 hours then fish a bit out and see how its looking ... it usual to have to use a scalple blade to tease off any rust spots left. Give the parts a really good wash in hot water and washing up liquid ( they need to be rinsed inside and out )
Put back together ... NO POLISHING! Job done.
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agree 100% on the no painting option , touch up only, if you feel the need , every scratch tells the tale of a grind gone wrong :LolLolLolLol:, as Ed says not many of the blue ones about.