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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: TC on December 06, 2018, 12:15 PM

Title: Oxalic question
Post by: TC on December 06, 2018, 12:15 PM
Does an oxalic bath damage the decals?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 06, 2018, 12:38 PM
Just use Citric acid! cheaps as chips, works a treat, doesnt damage anything and safe enough to drink  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 01:42 PM
I'm sure someone in another thread used citric acid and it lifted the chrome..
I've never used personally.
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 01:44 PM
Tin foil, water, elbow grease
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: CustardLips on December 06, 2018, 01:51 PM
Don't use tinfoil... oxalic or citric acid will both work fine (citric is safer). It won't affect the stickers or lift your chrome.
 :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 02:55 PM
'Well it's had it's (citric) bath but the next day the chrome had lifted in places... '

Just copied this from another thread, not saying you guys aren't correct! Assume the risk is low, but seems like there is a risk. Unless soemthing else made the chrome lift..


Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 03:01 PM
'Well it's had it's (citric) bath but the next day the chrome had lifted in places... '

Just copied this from another thread, not saying you guys aren't correct! Assume the risk is low, but seems like there is a risk. Unless soemthing else made the chrome lift..

I think the guy then proceeded to pay circa £500 to have it re-chromed.. so be careful buddy
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 06, 2018, 04:42 PM
Will only lift the chrome if its loose in the first place
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: TC on December 06, 2018, 05:05 PM
Will only lift the chrome if its loose in the first place

That’s what i thought!
But it doesn’t touch the decals right?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 06, 2018, 07:20 PM
nope  it's no more corrosive then regular water to decals
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Jon1971 on December 06, 2018, 07:42 PM
I done an old mongoose recently. Decals were fine. No damage and I had the frame submerged  for about 24hrs. Oxalic bath.
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 10:05 PM
Will only lift the chrome if its loose in the first place

I think that's bollocks tbh.. how do you know if it loose?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 10:11 PM
I wouldn't submerge a single frame of mine in any acid! I'd take some aluminium foil and gently rub it with some water. I'd gently understand how to recover it's beauty. I would never, ever submerge my frame in acid!

Just saying.. fistblump

It's a lazy way of recovering a frame!
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 06, 2018, 10:16 PM
geees, you try and help people....

OP if you rub your frame with tin foil there are plenty of threads on here pointing you to chromers assuming you have the cashola  ;)
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 06, 2018, 10:27 PM
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191958.0.html


Speak to that guy. He had to rechrome his frame after citric bath apparently..
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Taipan on December 06, 2018, 11:31 PM
Just use Citric acid! cheaps as chips, works a treat, doesnt damage anything and safe enough to drink  :daumenhoch:

Totally agree with clint,never ever had any problems this way  :daumenhoch:

Tin foil,coke/water and elbow grease total waste of time and effort  :idiot2: but if you have time to waste crack on its your frame to restore whichever way you wish  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: CustardLips on December 06, 2018, 11:42 PM
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191958.0.html


Speak to that guy. He had to rechrome his frame after citric bath apparently..

You've found one thread on this forum where the chrome has lifted after a citric/oxalic bath (the chrome obviously had issues in the first place). Dig a little deeper and you could probably find hundreds of threads on here where members have used this method without any issues whatsoever... it is recommended because it has been tried and tested many times. ???
Btw if you wanna use tin foil to remove rust from a chrome frame you crack on mate but giving duff infomation out to fellow members on here isn't the done thing so do us all a favour and keep your old wives tales to yourself... thanks.  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: TC on December 07, 2018, 06:59 AM
Anybody used a paddling pool to bath a frame in?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 07:25 AM
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191958.0.html


Speak to that guy. He had to rechrome his frame after citric bath apparently..

You've found one thread on this forum where the chrome has lifted after a citric/oxalic bath (the chrome obviously had issues in the first place). Dig a little deeper and you could probably find hundreds of threads on here where members have used this method without any issues whatsoever... it is recommended because it has been tried and tested many times. ???
Btw if you wanna use tin foil to remove rust from a chrome frame you crack on mate but giving duff infomation out to fellow members on here isn't the done thing so do us all a favour and keep your old wives tales to yourself... thanks.  :daumenhoch:

One is enough for me. Wouldn't risk it with any of my frames..
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 07:31 AM
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191958.0.html


Speak to that guy. He had to rechrome his frame after citric bath apparently..

You've found one thread on this forum where the chrome has lifted after a citric/oxalic bath (the chrome obviously had issues in the first place). Dig a little deeper and you could probably find hundreds of threads on here where members have used this method without any issues whatsoever... it is recommended because it has been tried and tested many times. ???
Btw if you wanna use tin foil to remove rust from a chrome frame you crack on mate but giving duff infomation out to fellow members on here isn't the done thing so do us all a favour and keep your old wives tales to yourself... thanks.  :daumenhoch:

Duff information? Just repeating what another member recently said. There is clearly a risk that some members didn't mention at all! That's the duff information mate. Nothing I have said is duff thanks. Find one word.

Fact is citric acid risks lifting your chrome! That's all. It's a fact. Not duff information!
 :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 07:56 AM
http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191958.0.html


Speak to that guy. He had to rechrome his frame after citric bath apparently..

You've found one thread on this forum where the chrome has lifted after a citric/oxalic bath (the chrome obviously had issues in the first place). Dig a little deeper and you could probably find hundreds of threads on here where members have used this method without any issues whatsoever... it is recommended because it has been tried and tested many times. ???
Btw if you wanna use tin foil to remove rust from a chrome frame you crack on mate but giving duff infomation out to fellow members on here isn't the done thing so do us all a favour and keep your old wives tales to yourself... thanks.  :daumenhoch:

'Old wives tales'?
I think you want to tone it down a bit buddy!!!

Next time you recommend citric acid, make sure you highlight the risk or I will!
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 08:00 AM
Just use Citric acid! cheaps as chips, works a treat, doesnt damage anything and safe enough to drink  :daumenhoch:

Totally agree with clint,never ever had any problems this way  :daumenhoch:

Tin foil,coke/water and elbow grease total waste of time and effort  :idiot2: but if you have time to waste crack on its your frame to restore whichever way you wish  :daumenhoch:

It's not a waste of time if it saves the original chrome  :idiot2:

It's a bit authoritarian around here?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: TC on December 07, 2018, 08:18 AM
Back on topic guys
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 07, 2018, 08:54 AM
TC I usually use a 3 ring 1m paddling pool. it's needs to be distorted slightly to get a frame to fit but that also helps in reducing the volume of fluid needed to cover the frame.
tubs full of water placed in and around the frame will also help reduce the volume needed and therefore the citric acid is needed.

Regarding the lifting mentioned above, the chrome HAS to be already lifting in order for the water to get underneath it!
citric acid will not penetrate secure chrome!  There are a ton of thread on here with successful results and I personally have had fabulous results on numerous occasions.

contrary to duff info you may read on the net aluminium foil WILL remove rust BUT the chrome and rust particles becomes lodged in the foil turning it into a harsh abrasive.
it's great on axles, spokes etc but WILL DEFINITELY scratch your chrome.

As with anything, do your research. The Tech and resto pages on this site are some of the best out there and a wealth of information  :daumenhoch:

Citric acid or oxalic acid will only remove rust! if the rust is the only thing holding your bike together it will not magically rechrome you bike for you.

We must also remember that not all chrome is equal. some is laid down over copper then nickle, other stuff is just laid down as cheaply as possible. As with most things prep and the environment is key!

All things to bear in mind when dealing with chrome  :daumenhoch:


This is my how to thread  :daumenhoch

http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,178383.0.html

Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: CustardLips on December 07, 2018, 09:09 AM
There you go grimweld... tin foil = duff information.  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: TC on December 07, 2018, 09:18 AM
TC I usually use a 3 ring 1m paddling pool. it's needs to be distorted slightly to get a frame to fit but that also helps in reducing the volume of fluid needed to cover the frame.
tubs full of water placed in and around the frame will also help reduce the volume needed and therefore the citric acid is needed.

Regarding the lifting mentioned above, the chrome HAS to be already lifting in order for the water to get underneath it!
citric acid will not penetrate secure chrome!  There are a ton of thread on here with successful results and I personally have had fabulous results on numerous occasions.

contrary to duff info you may read on the net aluminium foil WILL remove rust BUT the chrome and rust particles becomes lodged in the foil turning it into a harsh abrasive.
it's great on axles, spokes etc but WILL DEFINITELY scratch your chrome.

As with anything, do your research. The Tech and resto pages on this site are some of the best out there and a wealth of information  :daumenhoch:

Citric acid or oxalic acid will only remove rust! if the rust is the only thing holding your bike together it will not magically rechrome you bike for you.

We must also remember that not all chrome is equal. some is laid down over copper then nickle, other stuff is just laid down as cheaply as possible. As with most things prep and the environment is key!

All things to bear in mind when dealing with chrome  :daumenhoch:


This is my how to thread  :daumenhoch

http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,178383.0.html

PERFECT thanks buddy
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 10:26 AM
There you go grimweld... tin foil = duff information.  :idiot2:

Did I not just ask you to tone it down?

So to summarise:

Aluminium foil can be used with water to remove rust but risks scratching the chrome.

Citric acid can be used to remove rust, but risks removing the chrome entirely

This correct?
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Avro on December 07, 2018, 11:18 AM
Citric acid does not lift chrome.
The frame in question had issues with the chrome (that's why the owner tried to recover it).
Citric acid, and other weak organic acids, is harmless. Yes the word 'acid' sounds scarey but it in this case it is weak lemon juice.
Citric acid is the primarly cleaning agent in most eco-friendly cleaners.
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: CustardLips on December 07, 2018, 11:55 AM
There you go grimweld... tin foil = duff information.  :idiot2:

Did I not just ask you to tone it down?


You're obviously the font of all bmx knowledge so I'll step aside and leave you to it mate.  ;)
In fact tbh... makes me wonder how this site has functioned without your superior knowledge all these years.  :bellend:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 12:29 PM
There you go grimweld... tin foil = duff information.  :idiot2:

Did I not just ask you to tone it down?


You're obviously the font of all bmx knowledge so I'll step aside and leave you to it mate.  ;)
In fact tbh... makes me wonder how this site has functioned without your superior knowledge all these years.  :bellend:


Nice, cheers mate
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Griswold on December 07, 2018, 12:40 PM
Citric acid does not lift chrome.
The frame in question had issues with the chrome (that's why the owner tried to recover it).
Citric acid, and other weak organic acids, is harmless. Yes the word 'acid' sounds scarey but it in this case it is weak lemon juice.
Citric acid is the primarly cleaning agent in most eco-friendly cleaners.

So it doesn't lift the chrome. But if it does, which is possible, there were already issues and that is what caused it. Think I've got it now.

 fistblump
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: BMX1973 on December 07, 2018, 07:13 PM
Oxy bath will not damage the Chrome. Done it loads of times with no effect on decals  :)
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: oldschoolace on December 07, 2018, 08:02 PM
Citric acid does not lift chrome.
The frame in question had issues with the chrome (that's why the owner tried to recover it).
Citric acid, and other weak organic acids, is harmless. Yes the word 'acid' sounds scarey but it in this case it is weak lemon juice.
Citric acid is the primarly cleaning agent in most eco-friendly cleaners.

So it doesn't lift the chrome. But if it does, which is impossible, there were already issues and that is what caused it. Think I've got it now.

 fistblump

Fixed that for you ;)
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: tfi_friday on December 19, 2018, 05:57 AM
Used citric many times on bikes, full chrome frames (87 pft) and also with decals and paint (88 master).

Chrome, decals and paint all survived with zero issues.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7YHdo1CEM_A/VxFsZxTmr7I/AAAAAAAADxU/bfnFTOM4GtQ/s640/blogger-image--1501811481.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Omy76ncANmk/Vxnlj0dOVvI/AAAAAAAAD68/IXNNGsMdLqIOWJJ6wm-VE1ILcMFRuDkHQCLcB/s1600/IMG_9598.JPG)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bqc6FmG-_3Y/VxnkCtVB_wI/AAAAAAAAD4g/hdmG0T-rZcYFmDiWjFtFsLkQn3zSIZxkwCLcB/s1600/IMG_9537.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QZ7NHCvbDzk/Vxnk-IPrkeI/AAAAAAAAD6w/mim64OfVv1ICB_EPEeEsmg3OeqB7rMHGwCLcB/s1600/IMG_9554.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D_RSOJ7STQo/Vxnj-7JSp0I/AAAAAAAAD3E/-GWLqivFVasQcRkRwKqwfY547Ug89ByFACLcB/s1600/IMG_9270.JPG)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2QDCq4-5XDA/Vxnk9xB_bnI/AAAAAAAAD6k/nDty6_aFzooISVy2qF4Gwjpj6QvV59QagCLcB/s1600/IMG_9542.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LKwgK_pdJHQ/VxF2-677W8I/AAAAAAAADzo/yvgbth3zHCg/s640/blogger-image-801881506.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pj6_hAPt-0A/W-Pmu7wmsqI/AAAAAAAAFC8/AOWHG51fvV4tKYGhAIlJypYCRZUxijckgCHMYCw/s5000/%255BUNSET%255D)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-blzSmu2KrP8/XBndNWleU-I/AAAAAAAAFE0/k9t-d6tbPXcs8CUvieubAIdDDN6Or9OLgCHMYCw/s5000/%255BUNSET%255D)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5fC5sZULo5Q/W-ioDeLQ3qI/AAAAAAAAFD8/jidxCA8pjWsaQPROYx6WqGxzUjrDX_8NgCHMYCw/s5000/%255BUNSET%255D)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jzkmHjFgqRM/XBndNUFjFDI/AAAAAAAAFEs/OOq7vlEPndgRWuDVDiHL1oHH5t4wB75vwCHMYCw/s5000/%255BUNSET%255D)
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: P J Tunni on December 19, 2018, 10:31 AM
So to do some small parts (maybe headset cups etc) do we need just the one bottle of 'Youngs Citric Acid' (is this the home brew stuff?) and a small container. Then just bang in the item and the acid (do you dilute it?) Sorry for being such a dummy, never tried it before, i have rubbed with tinfoil though!  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: CustardLips on December 19, 2018, 10:40 AM
Water and a tablespoon of citric should do the trick.  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: P J Tunni on December 19, 2018, 11:32 AM
Okay thanks, I'll give it a try!  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: Oxalic question
Post by: Funkyworm on December 22, 2018, 01:21 PM
Used Oxalic acid loads of times (as much as a whole bottle at a time with no issues whatsoever & soaking the parts for 24hrs at a time. It doesn't touch the decals as its not strong at all & will only at eat rust,  so any frame thats had its chrome eaten into will have had massive issues beforehand.
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