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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: Avro on February 04, 2019, 02:56 PM
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*waves*
I have been itching to start this build for what seems like an age. I would have started a long time ago but for another two projects sort of dropping on the doormat ??? So, this is actually the first of a series of three builds, all on a similar theme. I will be working on all three simultaneously as there a several big jobs that are duplicated, particularly a lot of anodising which I am cranking up a notch for these builds, wish me luck in this as I am going big this time :crazy2:.
So, the first project is a Shimano 4000, otherwise known as a Hattori Sight. Mainly for the Australian and far East markets I think so a rarity over here. I do not know how to lift the image of an orignal advertisment for the bike as a comlete so here is a link to an old thread that has said advertisment (I think it is because it is on Photobucket and we all know about that company)...
oldschoolmags.com/mags/Pancake_03.pdf
See pages 26 and 27
I also want to share a fabulous photograph from the BMX Museum of one lucky lad and his Shimano 4000, the joy on his face is just so clear to see, those were the days, what a great photograph :smitten:!
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I do not plan on doing a complete reincarnation of the original spec; close enough and, hopefully, just as lovely.
Here is the frame complete with the chosen fork, a Tange TX1200.
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The frame and fork are a good combination given both are Hi-Ten steel. Yes, this is a budget machine but look at those components in the advertisment for the complete! I am hoping this will be a fair weather cruiser as it boasts a 20" top tube, nice :daumenhoch:
Tange TX1200 fork advertisment...
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I had been searching for Tioga, Shimano or Tange branded frames for while with little luck. My Rhino Charge, http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,192953.0.html, was an Ebay find where I found myself the only bidder and got it for half what I was prepared to pay, a fool and their money and all that! Since then not a sniff. Here comes a confession......I went onto Facebook :-[. I joined a plethora of interest groups and had a look around. It is an awkard format to search for stuff for sure, I am still not sure how to do it efficiently. However, pretty much on the first day of Facebook searching I joined a page dedicated to Tange and Koizumi frames and parts. It was there that I found it, this 4000 frame (Hattori Sight as advertised). I instantly dib dobbed, cheap as chips too 8)
While collecting parts for the build I also sold a lot of parts to help fund the new builds and make a bit of room. I sold heaps at MK18, many things I would have happily come home with but I had to be ruthless; wish I had kept the Z'eds and the Maxy Cross cranks but no time for regrets.
In preparation for these builds I have also been trying to maximise space in the Man-Cave. Photography will be compromised as I have nothing like enough room for my pop-up studio, so apologies if many backgrounds are a little cluttered.
I think I have come up with a fabulous frame storage system :2funny:
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...I have been busy tidying too...
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I can not wait to get stuck in now.
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Real Old School . Looking forward to following this one :4_17_5:
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Yeah, looking forward to this build. I like checking out those rare/uncommon Japanese/Far East bikes on the museum. There's a couple of really nice examples of these Shimano branded ones on there. :)
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I'm in! You know I'm going to love this! :daumenhoch: Nice man cave btw.
As an aside, I don't do FB and never will BUT if there was one reason to do so, it would be to join the little interest groups like the one you found. ;)
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Nice start to a build thread - looking forward to it ;)
PS... Hope you've got some decent rawl plugs holding that curtain rail....erm....frame rack up :2funny: :LolLolLolLol:
:daumenhoch:
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Those bikes look familiar, think i have favourited them all on the Museum! Wish my wife would let me have my bikes stored in my spare room, sadly it's full of all her crap and i get the loft and shed! :LolLolLolLol:
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This looks like a very promising thread already - keep us posted :daumenhoch:
There's no way my curtain rail would hold all those frames - with my DIY skills it can just about cope with a curtain :teef:
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Looking forward to this build and the magic you do with anodising .
Wish my man cave was that tidy..
Again curtian rails are great ( with plenty of plugs :LolLolLolLol:)
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i see landing gear forks ,nice
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Great thread mate! :daumenhoch: I love it when build or resto threads have so much background info. This kind of effort is what makes :radbmxsmilie: so special. :4_17_5:
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I like to give new things a go. 'Do it yourself' if I can, although I exclude decorating from this because it is the worst job in the world. The Shimano is a very clean frame, excellent really but clearly used. I want it to be near perfect, given the limitations of my skills.
Now, the rear dropouts are marked, the following pictures were taken after I flattened down the burrs:
Left hand
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Right hand
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This was a blatant excuse to try out brazing, something I have wanted to have a go at for ages. I have another frame that has a couple of dings to the bottom of the chain stays that I want to fill with brass so this would be practice. With these jobs in mind I purchased a little kit:
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The kit has sat in the Man-Cave for a while waiting for a) courage to give it a go, and, b) another over-arching project coming together. My project list is quite long and I hope to unify them all into one whole, trouble is this takes time and planning but I am getting there. I said in opening post of this thread that I had three BMX projects all on a similar theme, well make that four because a Rhino III has just landed on my doorstep.
The Shimano needs to get moving, and I can not do a lot until the frame is painted, therefore I have try to braze. I plan to send the frame off to SBD this time. I have been using a local powdercoater; they mainly do agricultural stuff but take on anything. The jobs I have had done have been good, no doubt, very cheap too. However, I recently tried to peel some decals off a set of forks powdered by them and the decal took most of the paint from one leg with it. The rest of the paint just peeled off by hand. I guess you get what you pay for.
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...how hard can it be! Flame, rod, metal.....bravado :idiot2:
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Well, not too hard but, predictably, initial attempts are a bit, ummmm, messy ;D
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Still, brass has been applied to metal so I am claiming a success! Here is the worst of my efforts, the other side was much better but I forgot to photograph it, honest that is true!
...flatted down with files and emery cloth and calling it quits! I could put more brass down but, for a first go, I am happy (ish).
Left:
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Right:
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So, need to call SBD and get the thing in the post, not forgetting the forks of course. More soon I hope.
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Pretty good , that ^ .
Got your new frame yet ?
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Arrived today, thank you Rob.
I think you are right, the frame and fork are nos. There are no build marks anywhere, just a bit of patina from age.
Thank you again, top man.
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A fantastic build thread already mate! Love it :4_17_5:
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That brazing set up looks a handy thing to have, wished I'd known about them a few years back.
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Nice work on the dropouts Peter, makes a big difference :daumenhoch:
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Nice work on the dropouts Peter, makes a big difference :daumenhoch:
Agreed! Fair play for having a go at it. Not sure I would have had the balls. That said, I recently took a circular saw to my snowboard! :D
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Super set up.
Cracking man cave too :daumenhoch:
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I have made a little progress with the Shimano 4000, but it is painfully slow. Super busy at work and doing very long hours does not help. I think I have had two clear days available for BMX in the last five weeks or so but things are due to change with the passing of Easter. I will be doing less hours and doing more play.
One excellent piece of news is that I was successful in getting my permit to purchase, import and possess pre-cursors to explosives and poisons. This means that I can start up my anodising again, and this time with more ambition.
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I decided to send the frame and forks off to SBD, a 'slight' issue with a frame and fork I had done locally made me think 'get it done once and get it done right'. The frame and fork were sent to SBD raw. Here are a couple of shots of the bike at the powdercoaters prepped to paint:
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And after:
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The colour is Brazilian Blue, a very fine metallic. Under artificial light the metallic is barely noticable. I am hoping that in natural light it will pop.
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Great work on them dropouts Peter... they look awesome. :daumenhoch:
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Great work mate , those dropouts look perfect mate.
Top work so far looks mint. :daumenhoch:
Cannot wait for more cooking in the kitchen :LolLolLolLol:
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I have had a lot of decals on order for quite a while now; many of which will be original or at least from scans or pictures. I do not have the means to make my own decals, there are people much better at it than me and, give them time, they come up trumps.
I have a number of frame sets that need building and all need decals. It is as if only once the decals are applied that the frame sets demand a compliment of parts; parts that work with them. It may be that I have this arse about front but it is what I have boiled it down to. I do have plans for all the builds, quite detailed plans, and most of the parts (with some annoying exceptions) with which to build them, but until decals are applied one can never be sure if they will work together. I really need to see the decals to be sure of the plan, is it just me?
Here is the Shimano 4000 with it's decals, I think I am on to a good thing.
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Roll on more time for fun stuff; although the fabulous bank holiday weather make me want the beach and a swim (I have been been for a swim before at Easter, many years ago, and it is not for the faint hearted). I will wait a couple of months for that swim but in the mean time there is room for BMX...
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Nice ;)
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Looking ace. I'm really looking forward to seeing this finished, something special for us to feast our eyes on I'm sure.
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Looking good, the decals look great on the blue! :)
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Love that blue . Looking forward to seeing this finished . :daumenhoch:
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Day off so let's get building! It has been too long.
I plan to get most of the parts fitted today with some major exceptions; the cranks that need anodising and the saddle which I do not have unless I pinch the Elina from the Hot Heart. The anodising is in hand. I made all my solutions this morning, the caustic soda, Nitric solution and the anodising bath itself, all scaled up to feed my ambition :crazy2: Progress is guaranteed on at least one front.
The stem is a modest SR MS422, a part I have used before in its painted top incarnation. I like these painted stems, super clean and simple. The one for this build has a metallic blue top, perfect.
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The stem is mated with some blue anodised handlebars, I do not know the manufacturer. The handlebars are barely 23" wide, so things will be cramped up front. I :smitten: big lairy race bars so these will be something new to me, at least new to me since 1981 (thinking my mk1 burner bars were narrow? the black painted ones?)! The colours are working really well with the frame which continues to encourage me.
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The brakes are a pair of blue Shimano Tourneys with new-old-stock Shimano Pre-bents and Shimano cables. The colours are still holding up which I am really pleased about. The Tourneys are minty and it shows, the colour is super-metallic and vibrant.
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Looking good...
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Stunning ! Loving everything about this build :bow: Are those the bars from Vert Ego/Rock Chick. Very nice, thinking of those for myself :chin:
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...the wheels are a pair of OGK's. They came with a 16T Suntour freewheel so it was left on. OGK wheels were actually specified for the Shimano 5000, a far more racy frame. The Shimano 4000 had to make do with Araya 7x rims! I guess 'mags' had more mystique and perceived value. The OGK's are mighty heavy!
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I have given up on period tyres. I have chased period tyres, had some success, but I struggle to see the sense of it. I do want to potter around on my bikes, no, 35 year old tyres won't cut it. So I plan to do the best I can with the repops that are out there. Both the Shimano 4000 and 5000 were specified with coloured 'Snake-Belly' tyres and that is what this bike is getting. They are repops, made in Japan and look the beans. Now I have to be honest, on bringing the front up to 35psi one bead blew off the rim and ripped a hole in the inner tube, not once but twice. I had Skyways on my Burner bitd and do not remember this being an issue with 'mag' wheels? Is it the tyres? They are a very light construction, foldable. Third time seems to be alright athough they are only at around 25 psi.
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I am rapidly running out of room in the cave! I have decided to make more of an effort with photography, mainly for YouTube, and this has made things super tight and conjested. Still, it is all fun. The build is on track...
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I got the bars from someone on here a while ago, I do not remember who.
I have just looked at the bars sold be the seller you mention and I think you are right, they are one and the same.
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Really coming together :4_17_5:
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Looking great mate :coolsmiley:
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Loving this, absolutely stunning! :smitten: Agree on the tyres, i ride all my bikes so i always go for repops.
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The bank holiday weekend has given me time to make progress with the Shimano 4000. As I had two full days available I decided to tackle the cranks and chainwheel. This will mean trying out my new anodising tank. I have set up my anodising using fresh chemicals, new electrodes and new hardware.
The cranks are Shimano 600 Arabesque, from a road groupset really but perectly fine for BMX. They came to me with a 43T Shimano chainwheel and it will be retained. The original gold anodising is in a sorry state.
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The first job was to strip the anodising and deep clean the metal. The anodising is removed by dipping in a solution of caustic soda, this also cleans and draws impurities out from the surface. These impurities are further cleaned with a solution of nitric acid, these dips leave the metal super clean and raw. The caustic soda also etches the surface which will have to be remedied with polishing. Here are the cranks after dipping:
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Polishing next, I probably go over the top with this stage but never mind. I started with p240 on specific areas where burrs needed flatting or deep scraches needed to be removed or at least minimised. Then it was just a laborious case of flatting down through the grades, 800 > 1200 > 2000 > 2500 and finishing with Peek polish. This was all done by hand as I did not want to loose edges and stamps. The 'Shimano 600' logo was masked with tape until I got to p2500. I hate seeing those over-polished parts on ebay where all the detail is obliterated. Here is the drive-side crank after polishing, it will be gloves from now on:
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The parts are cleaned with soapy water, making sure no beading occurs, and rinsed in deionised water.
I have investing in a large assortment of aluminium nuts, bolts, washers, studs and heavy titanium wire. With this hardware I will be making custom jigs for everything I anodise. I have high hopes for the countersunk screws I have bought as they will give a very good electrical contact with minimal surface area.
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...so on to the anodising itself. The new tank's aeration works a treat although I had to add a series of lead rings to the tubes so they stayed put. Here are the cranks, in their jig, in the anodising tank with the aeration system in place:
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Switch it all on and wait!
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I am using amperages and times from previous work. It is handy having a number of previous successes to draw on in this regard. The parts do not look a lot different coming out of the tank, they just have a dull lustre to them. Anyway on to the dying phase. I mix up my dyes with tap water as I live in a very soft water area. At this stage you don't really know how good the results will be, it could completely fail meaning you have to start all over again "nono"
The cranks were dunked in the dye for around 20 minutes, this is what I fished out:
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Not looking too bad. A quick rinse in cold water and then dunked in near boiling water for another 20 minutes and hey presto blue cranks. I am really pleased although the chainwheel is a bit too dark, I had to do the chainwheel twice already so it will have to do. The Shimano 4000 is nearly done.
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Great Skills! :4_17_5: your a clever bugger lol :daumenhoch: looks great :)
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Awesome shit right there mate. Skills.
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More here on the anodising if you are interested ;)
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Avro, you my man have made my day. That Sir is a brilliant video with enough detail to keep me watching. nothing better than putting spare time to a creative use. I'd love to know what polishing/sanding tools you use or is it totally by hand? Ive experimented with the dremmel sanding tubes/cylinders but maybe I need a linisher?
Again great work - I also know how long those video's take to put together ;)
Cheers
MrD
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Thanks for that. This video is much closer to what I am aiming for in terms of production. It's a challenge really as I am not too good on computers and the like. It is also a way of using the hobby to explore more avenues of interest.
I generally polish by hand, either free-hand or with the aid of blocks. I have a lot of radius blocks and tight corner blocks from model making and they are handy. I do have a small bench grinder with is dedicated to polishing but I rarely use it. I am always fearful of loosing edges and detail.
I have been watching a few videos lately made by clock makers and jewellers to see how they tackle polishing. In particular one of the clock makers takes polishing brass to dizzying heights. It was from this inspiration that I am looking into different grades of paste polishes.
Anyway, thank you for the kind words, much appreciated!
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I have quite a few sets of pedals, two pairs of Lightnings. two pairs of SR MP130 and a pair of Surefoot II (SR MP120). Some of them are in very poor condition, at least the cages are. I will be having a go at restoring them in the future. One of the pairs of SR MP130's are rather nice, too good to warrant restoration. They are blue also and earmarked for the Shimano 4000.
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Yes they are scratched up on the ends but plenty good enough. Problem is that they are 1/2". My other pair of SR MP130's are also 1/2". Looking at the Surefoot II's (MP120's) they look to have identical bodies to the MP130's but different cages and spindles. The Surefoots are 9/16" and it just so happens that they are earmarked for future build that requires 1/2".
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An opportuinty to kill two birds with one stone.
With the pedals stripped down it was time to compare the spindles:
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Save for the different finish and machining of the threaded ends they will swap just fine. A regrease and reassembly and one step forward.
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Time to fit the cranks and a few remaining bits and bobs.
The cranks are fixed to the square-taper axle with Shimano's 'One Key' system, which is so simple and effective. The 'One Key' consists of a chrome threaded end cap, a thin shim, retaining bolt and a thick steel washer. The steel washer sits in the bottom of the recess in the crank where the other fittings go. It has the same OD as the chrome end cap so will not slide inside it. Next goes the bolt, then the shim which fits over the head of the bolt. This shim sits inside the chrome endcap. Next screws in the endcap. The end result is to make the retaining bolt a captive bolt, free to turn but retained inside the crank effectively. The cranks tighten up to the axle in the conventional way. However, when you go to undo the bolt again, as it is captive, it becomes it's own puller and the cranks are easily removed. One key to put them on and the same key to take them off. It must put a fair amount of strain on the bolt threads but it really does work. I think it is neat anyway 8)
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So cranks on, chainwheel on and Izumi chain fitted, easy. Pedals followed.
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The grips are Fuan. I was looking at the picture of the Shimano 4000 at the start of this thread and the lad looks to have Fuan grips, or possibly Oakley, fitted so they are in keeping.
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The silver chain is also a nod to that picture although I can not spare a set of Shimano DX pedals for this build with two other builds demanding them. When new, complete Shimano 4000 and 5000's were specified with KKT Lightnings and I may swap those in once I find time to restore a set. I noticed that the link tothe magazine advert for both the Shimano 4000 and 5000 completes is broken, unfortunately I have not been able to track it down again.
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Lovely. :4_17_5:
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Amazing attention to detail! Looking forward to seeing this finished! :4_17_5:
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The build is now finished, kind of. I have had to pinch the saddle and pad set from my Hot Heart; I have been looking for months for suitable substitutes but either nothing there or way out of my price range. I have ordered several pad sets from a well known supplier but I have not had any luck getting them made (like my 'Shimano Racing' pad set they involve origination, although, despite suppling nos decals to use, he is not keen). I will pursue this as I really need the pad sets for two future builds. It is no biggy as there is never any rush with restorations.
Elina saddle, Nitto post (repro and very heavy!), Tange clamp...
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...and all done. Believe me it is very pretty, but tiny! The handlebars feel like a wing nut!
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I am very pleased with how the colours came out. The cranks and chainwheel are a little dark but this is mirrored in the decals so I think it balances? I really need to improve my photography, I get close sometimes but I am not sure how I get there! Thanks for your comments and encouragement, it really does matter.
More here if of any interest />
On with the next one...
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Nice one! :4_17_5:
So what's next in line??
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Lovely that :daumenhoch:
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Beautiful that! :4_17_5: