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Mid School BMX (>87) 1989 to 2003 (<05) => Mid School ( Keep the faith ) => Mid School Ref Stickies => Topic started by: SaMAlex on May 14, 2007, 11:27 PM
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Ok, it’s taken me a little while to be able to do this but I’ve been wanting to for ages. Hopefully it will find itself onto Vintage BMX cos I have seen some of the guys over there get it wrong a few times.
When S&M first made the Prince Albert crank they took the Boss crank design and tried to solve the problem of them breaking at the pedal end. They did this by piercing the pedal boss, making the cranks arm pierced at the end (hence the name). They used the same spindle as Boss cranks (I think) and they were made in Florida by Greg Esser, the BMX racer. These cranks were first make in 1994 and I don’t know how many of the first gen were made. The design didn’t really work cos now the crank arms broke at the BB end.
The second Gen design was a simple progression: pierce the BB end as well. The name didn’t really work but hopefully the cranks would. The design was better, but there were still problems with the spindle. The splines had a smaller Outside dia than the 19mm bearings and they were quite deep (S&M wanted to make them different and try to stop the hit and miss alignment with profile splines). The deep spline and smaller dia spindle made them weaker and they broke.
The third Gen PAs were very close to the second but they used a profile style spindle. The spindles were a little different because they used a smaller bolt to thicken up the wall of the spindle. This worked fine and the spindle problems were sorted out, but there were still some lingering problems with the crank arms. Now that the BB boss was bigger (for the profile style spindle) the piercing at the BB end clipped the inside wall of the arm tube so they sometimes broke there.
The forth and final PA had a bigger overall size of crank arm to give clearance for the piercing at both ends. This really did seem to make for a strong crank arm, but these were only really used for warrantee replacements and they weren’t made for sale (As far as I know).
It’s a shame because S&M went to an awful amount of effort, trouble and expense to make good cranks and it really bit them bad. In the end, they decided that other people (profile) make great cranks at a good price so they wouldn’t bother.
I prefer the first gen cranks. They are very clean looking and the arm isn’t too big. I first held a pair of the first 50 in 1994, but they all got sent back because they were made wrong and the arms didn’t line up (jinxed from the very start?). I have been waiting to get a set of gen 1s since then, and I finally did last week.
1st to 4 gen PA cranks- side view
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/PrinceAlbert4gens_1.jpg)
1st to 4 gen PA cranks- top view
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/PrinceAlbert4gens_2.jpg)
1st to 4 gen PA cranks- pedal end
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/PrinceAlbert4gens_3.jpg)
1st to 4 gen PA cranks- BB end
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/PrinceAlbert4gens_4.jpg)
1st and 2nd gen PA spindle
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/PrinceAlbertspindle.jpg)
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I've snapped a set of ones and twos!
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I've snapped a set of ones and twos!
But red series ones are where it's at for me though! soooooo nice! :smitten:
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I just quoted myself! Tw@t!
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I got a set of 2s in 95 (I guess) and used them for ages, no probs. I then put them on my cruiser in 97 and they are still there now.
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I'd say i maybe had a faulty set but two of my mates broke their's too! One guy on the day he bought them! But plenty of people (me included) have broken profiles too, so i still have a soft spot for PA's!
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....and sorry Alex! for messing up your informative thread! :-[
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Good thread. I didn't know any of that. I love a bit of history, me :)
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Should be made a sticky in mid school, wheres Dan. :daumenhoch:
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im hear all stuck down with my special glue.
mmmmmmm look great them puppys mr :)
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Nice info Alex!
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Yep, nice one Alex. Looks like mine are version 3
Cheers, Craig
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i had the version 3's i guess, because they had the profile style spindle. they lasted a whopping 3 days riding.
'nae mair riding for me the day!'
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Nice work Al :daumenhoch:
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Should first gens really be regarded as first gens?
What I mean id did first gens every make it to the retailers or where they simply prototypes?
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Should first gens really be regarded as first gens?
What I mean id did first gens every make it to the retailers or where they simply prototypes?
I cant say if they made it to retailers but people def used them. They can be seen on bikes in the odd mag shot, and I think they did a few runs of them. Im sure that some made it to the UK cos I think Ian Morris used some. I cant say for sure but I think they were more than prototypes.
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I bought a set of the 1st gen Prince Alberts in 94 from Mental Jimmys. Mine were red 175's. I did strip the teeth a bit on the left arm, so there was always some play but I ran them anyways. Years later I sold em on a complete bike on ebay. Here's a photo of chrome versions of what mine were like.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v200/Gobotts/DSCN0111.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/v200/Gobotts/DSCN0109.jpg)
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bet you wish you never sold those, huh ryan?
i had a tshirt with that logo too, it got worn to work and ended up dead. :-[
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i had a tshirt with that logo too
I had that shirt too. I gave it to a big hairy motorbiker mate cos he found it really funny. (I think he might have had a Prince Albert ... but I never asked him)
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(http://bp0.blogger.com/_pggDuIKMRJQ/R3QTvIUqp9I/AAAAAAAAAPw/vouNyi-fhGQ/s400/OldSamTs-1.jpg)
i saw this pic of yours on ryan's site alex, and wondered, is this the P.A. shirt you meant?
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Na, that other shirt was a print of the crank decal. It was a real shirt. That white one was one I printed myself using the screen for the crank box.
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Handy info, cheers for the time :daumenhoch:
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Good thread. I didn't know any of that. I love a bit of history, me :)
can't wait for the next campfire. :LolLolLolLol:
i just know Rob has filed all that away.
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I had a pair on for 30 mins before they snaped. Think they were 2nd gens. Worst cranks ever which is odd because s&m make the best forks & bars I think. The frames are cool too. Shame the cranks suck.
I'm not too impressed with s&m grips ither, lasted about a week and not nice to hold - back too good old ODIs now ;)
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Cant help but think maybe Odyssey stole the gen4 design for the 41 Therm (pre wombolt) cranks????
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i had three's off laz when he had attic bikes, they held up fine for me, i'm 11 1/2 stone tho and thats now.. I was gutted his shop didn't survive i think he's a top bloke even if he is a standard junky :-X. i first went down to coventry to meet him for a session at radlands a few months before a radlands jam where i saw someone break a pair, maybe it was alex??????????. Dan price tore it up as did ian morris and stuart king. Cong bust his gen 1 lengthy at the headtube
i gave them to Simon Rathbone whose mum and dad used to have a few ramps at trentham gardens in a disused warehouse during the "dead" years way before he started riding with me (on a skyway streetbeat!) he went to live in the states 6 years ago after popping his knee at rampworx doing tailwhips on the big box about 2000. he got another surgery last year and said he won't be able to ride for a long :(while.
to be continued.......................
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Waiting for mine to arrive is like torture. :'(
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/qq18/crzmky/smPA.jpg)
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I remember that Radlands jam. Good day out :)
"I've snapped me Standard!!!!!!!"
I remember thinking that's not a phrase I've heard too often....
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spoke to simon he says i can go raid his garage for the alberts :daumenhoch:
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(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/SDC10791.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/SDC10882.jpg)
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(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/ChrisMoellerPage9.jpg)
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again. Everything comes if you wait long enough.
Ive finally got a pair of Gen 4 Prince Albert Cranks!
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/PAGen4.jpg)
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I love mine
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ad241/Dipsomaniac_2010/SandM/IMG_1158.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ad241/Dipsomaniac_2010/SandM/IMG_1159.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ad241/Dipsomaniac_2010/SandM/IMG_1160.jpg)
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Can anyone tell me what generation these are? I think there G4's but need someone to confirm, sorry for the shoddy phone pics
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/DSC00124.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/DSC00126.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/DSC00123.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/DSC00125.jpg)
thanks
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They look too skinny for G4. Prob Gen 2 or 3 depending on what spindle the have :daumenhoch:
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They look too skinny for G4. Prob Gen 2 or 3 depending on what spindle the have :daumenhoch:
Thanks Alex,
I took a couple more shots, they're 48 splines so must be G3.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/IMAG0872.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/ee2/jimz360/IMAG0873.jpg)
Brought a old Volume Hellion with these puppys in, pretty happy with the deal now ;)
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The webco cranks are almost the same design also , only the pedal bosses are different
will post pic later
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my gen 4's
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/1003/escrs/bikes/mk3holmes-7.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/1003/escrs/bikes/mk3holmes-2.jpg)