RADBMX.CO.UK
Mid School BMX (>87) 1989 to 2003 (<05) => Mid School ( Keep the faith ) => Mid School Ref Stickies => Topic started by: SaMAlex on November 07, 2007, 12:47 AM
-
S&M Forks: The 1inch years.
I don't know everything about S&M forks but I wanted to have a go at pointing out the different types that I do know about. Feel free to pitch in with any other info. This is not the whole story I’m sure.
Over the years, S&M have had several different types of forks. There were many small changes, almost from batch to batch, which was in no small part due to them being made in several places
As far as I know, all S&M forks had double thick drop outs (some of the very early ones might not have). At first this was done by welding 2 dropouts together to make a thick one. In the early 90s this changed to having one thick drop out (along with the frame drop outs).
There were a few different bend shapes to the forks. Some had a tight curve and the legs met the steer tube quite square. Others had a shallower bend and they were at more of an angle when they met. This is bound to be down to where they were made.
The 3 types of early forks were thin legged and the steer tube was just one tube, with a ring welded on for the bearing race. These have been called "S&M Forks" (after the decals that were on them) and also "Pre-pitchforks".
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks10.jpg)
The first of these was the Mad Dog fork. The leg extended down past the drop out and the drop out was drilled.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/MDforks.jpg)
The next fork still had the extended fork leg, but the drop outs didn’t have any holes in them.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks02.jpg)
The final fork before the pitchfork came along. The drop out looked very similar to a pitchfork. They still had the thin legged and the steer tube was still just one tube. These forks weren’t as strong as pitchforks, but they were lighter, and they were still supplied as Challenger forks (without a brake hole).
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks03.jpg)
At last, the pitchfork came along. The steer tube had a second tube over the top of it, under the bearing race that was connected to the main steer tube with a weld around the under side. Because of this extra tube, the leg diameter could be increased. This was known as "landing gear style" cos LGs were one of the first forks to do this. The drop out didnt change much in shape but it was smaller than the old forks and it didnt come up the forkleg as far.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks04.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks05.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks11.jpg)
There were many changes to the pitchforks, even though it wasn't always obvious. For a while, the drop out was made longer to help peg clearance.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks06.jpg)
Some pitchforks had a second tube inside the steer tube to strengthen it up at the lower bearing race area. This was OK, but some long stems wouldn’t fit in them, and you sure weren’t gunna run a Wedgie Jackson in there!
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks12.jpg)
The peg mount version, the Ditchfork, had 2 versions. The first was a threaded tube welded into a hole. The second was a more substantial peg mount.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks07.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks08.jpg)
Finally, there was the Stupid fork, or Menstrual fork. This was a 1†clamp on stem and the steer tube was machined down from one thick tube (rather than several tubes over each other). The dropouts wrapped round under the leg, (the same as Oversized pitchforks started doing). There was also an extra tube pushed inside from the top to help strengthen the stem clamp area, and this was welded round the top. On these forks, the clamp on area was just under 1†diameter (not sure why). This meant they would only fit with S&M 1†Clamp on stems. The redneck and the menstrual stem (similar to the challenger stem) were both available in 1†and 1 1/8†clamp on versions.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks14.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks15.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks09.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks13.jpg)
I hope that has helped out a little. Please add to the thread if there is something I’ve missed.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks01.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMforks.jpg)
Oh, and thanks to "Woody Alan Bars" for the 2 pics with the Mad Dog forks.
-
Nice work there, chum. I'm a bit jealous though. :knuppel2:
-
excellent write up alex!
just to point out tho,but im sure the challenger forks had single dropouts? and most of the forks above have the wrong stickers on them, just to confuse the timeline. ;D
-
nice one young man,very helpfull .
i will make this a sticky for future reference.
-
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/Bikes/SMForks12.jpg)
forgot to add, this model came around after i had a set of forks customised by getting a 2" length of stem shaft welded into my forks where theyd always bend/snap, i showed moeller and they came out shortly afterwards. this model never ran for long as some goofball invented a stem with a giant wedge! :LolLolLolLol:
-
yeah, some of the stickers have been changed, I was more looking at the dropouts and stuff. I didnt even go into dates and stuff cos then it gets too hard. I know that pitchforks werent around in early 91, and were probably out later that year.
Gogo, good point about the challenger forks having single thick drop outs, even tho those couple of challenger f+fs seemed to have double drops on the forks (I think).
I think the long wedge was a great solition, its a shame that "over sized" was out soon after and blew 1" away.
-
Great work there Alex, very thorough :daumenhoch:
Craig
-
I was going through my sticker box and thought these might be nice to put on this thread. There were loads of S&M fork decals but here are a few of them that Ive got.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/r313/alexleech/stickers/SMForkdecals_small.jpg)
-
niceone, hey, the early ones should have been called 'bitch forks', cos they couldn't make up their mind what they wanted, mine went from bent to straight to bent again in one session!. I stopped riding them after that and swapped them with Alex. beware!! :buck2:
-
niceone, hey, the early ones should have been called 'bitch forks', cos they couldn't make up their mind what they wanted, mine went from bent to straight to bent again in one session!. I stopped riding them after that and swapped them with Alex. beware!! :buck2:
Haha, they were a little 'moveable!'. You really wanna be using a Wedgie Jackon with a pair of these. I used to have a whole line of bent S&M forks, but that was cos I was trying to be like Hoffman in Head first (with his stack of bend Haro stuff under his ramp)
The ones I got from you are in the pictures above (the really thin pri-pitch with the long drop outs). If you look at the lineup of all the forks, you can see the ones on the lefts headtube is well out of line with all the other forks. You can even see the dent half way down the fork leg.
-
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/x88/BADINT1/GEN13.jpg)
Holmes MK1 on right MK3 on left, forks on MK3 have the extra inserted tube wedgie no workie.Hope this helps with some of the bends at steerer also.
-
My 24" Pitch just showed up.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2312943037_1b2fa103e1.jpg)
-
My 24" Pitch just showed up.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2312943037_1b2fa103e1.jpg)
:smitten:
-
is this alex leech?
got an s+ redneck 1" with the wedgie jackson on it an it dont fit in my 1" gt forksso cut it down!!
got a ltd dirtbike with a platform!!
rare as rokin horse dodo!
-
look what I have, ??? ?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/w55/noseley/ditchforks/100_1270-1.jpg)
-
Used to ride those early S&M pre-pitch forks 'Forks' bent them and upgraded to pitch forks. :)
-
"Finally, there was the Stupid fork, or Menstrual fork. This was a 1” clamp on stem and the steer tube was machined down from one thick tube (rather than several tubes over each other). The dropouts wrapped round under the leg, (the same as Oversized pitchforks started doing)."
These are original Stupid forks....dropouts do not wrap under the fork legs:
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3373/img0463nt.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/img0463nt.jpg/)
-
here is the second version of the stupid/menstrual fork with the wrap around dropouts.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/P7319785.jpg)
-
I like the Ditchfork :'( :'( :'( wanna have one
-
these just popped up on the museum. i believe these to be the first gen of ditch forks. were taken off a 92 murray style holmes. has the sandwich dropouts,no visible welds on the pegboss area on the (outside of the) leg and also notice how far up the peg boss hole is compared to later ditches.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/smditch.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/smditch2.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/hh166/adamdawson/smditch3.jpg)
-
Alex (and other S&M geeks), This is the fork that came with the Revcore frameset I bought of US ebay. It aint Revcore but I think it's an early S&M, reason being, double welded dropouts but look at this one and then look at the one on this early dirtbike frameset that I had in pic2, date on the bottom of the pic is November 89 so it must have been August 89 ish that the pic was shot. Thoughts? is it the same fork?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/DSC02816.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/scan0037.jpg)
-
Yeah Clive, I have wondered what forks they were on that bike. Are those other forks ones you have got ....... ?
-
Alex, those forks in RAD defo came with that Dirt Bike frame and those ones I scored with the Revcore look the same and identical to the Revcore forks that I remember but with double drops. I'm sure MD had stuff made at the same place as CW/Revcore BITD
-
Wich would u say these are and what are they worth these days ?
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/kheboy/9ce563f5.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/kheboy/a163353c.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/kheboy/9efc950f.jpg)
Sorry about pic quality
-
they look to be standard S&M pitchforks, 93-96ish they go for between 45-55 depending on condition
-
You need to take a pic of the whole of the steer tube. Pitchforks are thicker below the bearing race, pre-pitch are the same above and below. Although pre-pitch didn't have that weld around the under of the tube, between the fork legs
-
Alex (and other S&M geeks), This is the fork that came with the Revcore frameset I bought of US ebay. It aint Revcore but I think it's an early S&M, reason being, double welded dropouts but look at this one and then look at the one on this early dirtbike frameset that I had in pic2, date on the bottom of the pic is November 89 so it must have been August 89 ish that the pic was shot. Thoughts? is it the same fork?
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/DSC02816.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/dd42/clivegossa/scan0037.jpg)
Email Chris M about these forks a week or so ago. Here's a piccy of another pair:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff443/dannywhack/EarlySMForks.jpg)
Chris confirmed that they were built for S&M by CW for only a short time late 80's as Chris decided to go back to the normal raked fork :daumenhoch:
-
1" menstrual/stupid ditchforks
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/1003/escrs/mypics300.jpg)