Author Topic: Serial number identification help - Supergoose (Read 5572 times)

GooseJuice · « **on:** January 12, 2019, 05:02 PM »

Hi guys

About 5 months ago I acquired a vintage Supergoose with the intent of doing a bit of restoration on it to make it a weekend cruiser. When i got it I was told it was a 1983 bike but I don't know how its previous owner knew this. What I'm trying to do at the moment is identify the age of the bike for myself and whatever origins I can. Here's what I know:

1. Well, it's French! Stickers on the frame imply this
2. The rear dropouts implies an 82-88 bike from what I can tell having researched online

I can only find 2 stamps on the bike, the first is 212400 and the second 0985. Neither are serial numbers from what I can tell - I suspect this was old school security stamping to register it or identify it in the event of theft.

I've uploaded some images of the frame and the number stamps. If anyone can shed any light in this I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!!

Spen69 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2019, 07:51 AM »

BMX Racing Products manufactured frames back during this period out of anything they could get their hands on so if you read the resto threads in here you will go round and round.

The only way to know if it is definitely a Supegoose is there should be two extra holes in the rear brake bridge and if you're still not sure, you need to strip the frame and weigh it.

As for a date I'm gonna go with a Dec 1982 which makes this a very early frame if correct, but I will wait for John "Bobafett" on here to confirm. The first "2" means 1982 and the next "12" makes it December. The remaining numbers are just that, numbers.

Either way it is a cracking bike and nice find

GooseJuice · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2019, 01:33 PM »

Thanks for the reply. Feel like I'm starting to get somewhere. The brake bridge has a single hole, but I have read a load of stuff elsewhere saying some of the Ammaco UK versions were a single hole with the Calis always having 3 holes. I've attached an image of the brake bridge and a close up of the drop out, which ties in with the SG3's design. I noted that a lot of images of other brake bridges I've seen show them to be a flat piece of metal rather than a 'tube' design like mine.

This MBK decal is still throwing me off though. If it started out life in France then it's more likely to be the UK not the US version (and we know it's not US because of the brake bridge). Or is this some curve ball where it's not a Supergoose at all, just some regular Mongoose looking frame that someone put Supergoose decals on during its early life (as the decals befit the age of the bike in terms of their condition - part from the ones on the front forks which I've changed recently).

CustardLips · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2019, 02:09 PM »

The 'M' stands for Motobecane... a French bmx manufacturer. Can't see any reason why it should be there... it bears no significance to the frame. Stuck on by a previous owner i guess.

CustardLips · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2019, 02:14 PM »

Actually looking at it that welding does look pretty ropey. $:-\$
Post some more pics of the welds.

CustardLips · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2019, 02:20 PM »

Numbers stamped all over the show too... I'm guessing that ain't the norm either.

GooseJuice · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2019, 02:48 PM »

Pics of the joins attached.....

CustardLips · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2019, 02:54 PM »

Sorry to disappoint you mate but I'm saying that ain't no Mongoose... looks like a copy frameset to me. $:-\$

GooseJuice · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2019, 03:25 PM »

Well shame if that's the case. There are some OG and old school parts on it (Mongoose crank, etc.), Elina seat, SR S468 pedals. Might be time to strip it, sell it and bin the frame.

CustardLips · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2019, 03:34 PM »

I'd keep it as a rider... still looks the part.

Don't be put off... just build something else.

GooseJuice · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2019, 03:59 PM »

Quote from: CustardLips on January 13, 2019, 03:34 PM

I'd keep it as a rider... still looks the part.
Don't be put off... just build something else.

Yeah not sure I could look at it the same knowing it's a fraud - not to mention those welds have got me a bit worried now! I'd rather know than be ignorant to it though.

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CustardLips · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2019, 04:15 PM »

The welds are nothing to worry about mate... it's still in great shape for a 30 odd yr old frameset.

vestanpance · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2019, 05:16 PM »

Could it be something Motobacane built under license from Mongoose?

GooseJuice · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2019, 06:06 PM »

Quote from: vestanpance on January 13, 2019, 05:16 PM

Could it be something Motobacane built under license from Mongoose?

There's a thought. Quick bit of Google:

http://www.mongoose.com/usa/roots/

And the relevant paragraph from it:

"BMX Products was one of the first bike companies to sponsor BMX racing in the early 1980s, and very soon Mongoose bikes began to dominate the sport. Mongoose quickly gained an international following as well, and in 1983, the French company Motobécane was licensed to produce and distribute Mongoose bikes in Europe."

So looks like they were involved in production for a time.

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chrisv39 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2019, 11:42 PM »

The Mongoose Grand Prix built by ammaco is very similar to a Motobecane and have similar stamps to yours.

GooseJuice · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2019, 08:20 AM »

Quote from: chrisv39 on January 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

The Mongoose Grand Prix built by ammaco is very similar to a Motobecane and have similar stamps to yours.

I'd come across that too. The dropouts were the noticeable difference between the two from what I can tell, with the MGP having different ones to what you see on an SG3 / whatever mine is!

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chrisv39 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2019, 05:17 PM »

Have a look on BMX Museum, there’s one on there made by Motobecane in 1985.

GooseJuice · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2019, 05:26 PM »

Every single Motobécane I've looked at has a different shaped frame where the frame joins the dropouts. It's all so odd!!!

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GooseJuice · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2019, 06:12 PM »

Here we are:
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=531210

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GooseJuice · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2019, 08:40 AM »

Okay so after much research I've drawn one of two conclusions to try and put this f****r to bed for good. The anomalies:

1. The brake bridge is oval, not flat.
2. The piece of frame where the bottom bracket connects to the chain stay area isn't one flat piece, it's two 'bars' coming out of the bottom bracket.

These match images I've seen of early 80s Mongoose Experts:

https://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/mongoose/60401#.UPxmGCc3iWc

We know from the images of my bike there are shitty welds on the dropouts, so it could be an Expert that's had its dropouts rewelded at some stage.

Or it's just some imitation copy from back in the day.

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kdw712 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2019, 10:56 AM »

i very much doubt this is a mongoose of any sort

MBK did indeed build bikes under licence for Mongoose / Mongoose UK (Ammaco)
there is a review in BMX Bi-weekly Vol 3 iss 18
that states as much I'll post some shots in a moment

a copy in here https://sites.google.com/site/kdw712osbmx/mongoosescans-html but since the demise of photobucket its a bit pants
and originals are on another hard drive

kdw712 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2019, 11:08 AM »

see attached (with luck)

GooseJuice · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2019, 04:56 PM »

Thanks for the info!! I actually came across someone who's had a few of these now.

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kdw712 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2019, 10:55 AM »

This gets more interesting as you dig away

the Grand Prix frame set is a great match and wasn't a USA bike so
pushes back to Europe and MBK

the drops on this are different though and as the std m'goose's of the time.

It could be a another variant

the UK supergoose was discussed at length a few years ago on here
and decided that the

US spec was large dia tubing
UK spec was standard dia tubing

this maybe something new yet again assuming its all chromoly tubing and not just main frame ?

Any one got a MBK catalogue scanned?

GooseJuice · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2019, 11:52 AM »

It's such a weird one isn't it. Strip away the decals and it looks identical to an Expert, so you have to ask what ever made it classified as a Super?!?!

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