RADBMX.CO.UK
New School BMX 2004 - Now => New School Park, Street & Dirt => Topic started by: kev-s on October 27, 2009, 07:59 PM
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after finding out the other day that snafu and primo are part owned by taiwanese businessmen how many other companies are 100% rider owned and would you build a bike using 100% rider owned company parts?
ill start
1.s&m
2.standard
3.hoffman
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Dialled Bikes
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Not 100% but fairly sure:
Properbikeco
United
Deluxe
Bicycleunion
BSD
Flybikes
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i thought proper were backed by someone so not 100% rider owned? anyone know for sure
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Trev would know.....I do miss Trev! :'(
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Dialled Bikes
Though the owner isn't much of a rider :LolLolLolLol:
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Will Smyth doesn't ride, does that count out United?
Mark Noble doesn't ride trails, does that count out Deluxe?
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Will Smyth doesn't ride, does that count out United?
Mark Noble doesn't ride trails, does that count out Deluxe?
Both were very good riders in their day and have contributed loads to BMX in other ways, so I reckon they should still be included.
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Will Smyth doesn't ride, does that count out United?
Mark Noble doesn't ride trails, does that count out Deluxe?
Both were very good riders in their day and have contributed loads to BMX in other ways, so I reckon they should still be included.
agreed, not sure they need to be tail whipping now to count as riders, they were riders and are now contributing in other ways.
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Can of worms, quote out of this months ride "a 40 year old who used to ride, thats not rider owned" I think the companys orlando is reffering to are owned by riders who still ride occasionally but certainly not to the extent they did when they were 20 which is obvious if they are running a bike company.
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yeah but if the said company flowed em a load of frames or spent £1000s on advertising all those f***ers at Ride would be be going
"oh the best rider owned company ever, we love them, let's kiss their pretty arses" :LolLolLolLol:
if Hoffmann never got on a bike again would anyone really be against it being called "rider owned?"
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ok to clarify a 100% rider owned company must be soley owned by a person who still rides today or started their company when they did ride and still own 100% of it today
ie are not financially backed or tied to any businessmen or people (apart from the bank) who are not riders or ex riders
or list what compaines you do know that are not 100% rider/ex rider owned which have backing/ money from non riders ie like snafu and primo etc...
reason im asking this because im building a new bike and what to know who exactly my money is going too
ive already f**ked up as ive bought primo rims :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
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Does the rider/ex rider have to be able to do certain tricks to qualify :LolLolLolLol:
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What about FBM?
Brian :daumenhoch:
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What if the rider/ex-rider is also a businessman (I guess they/we must all be businessmen as we are in business)?
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personaly I don't care what hobbies the owner of a bike company who's products I choose to ride has or has had. I find it hard to believe ex or current riders who own bike companies have anything to do with how they turn out anyway. They're just putting their name to a product to instill buyer confidence. Even if a bmxer actually mined the iron ore smelted it in a furnace, produced the tubing etc, what would make it any better than a taiwanese bike?
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MirraCo :daumenhoch:
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I'd be very surprised if Hoffman is 100% rider owned at this stage in it's life. It's far too big to be all hoffmans. And it's full title 'hoffman bike corp' would suggest there is a board of fat cats that even Hoffman himself has to keep happy with sales figures!
I think alone bikes might be under sole control of it's owner!
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What if the rider/ex-rider is also a businessman (I guess they/we must all be businessmen as we are in business)?
all riders/ex riders who run there bmx company are businessmen obviously, what im saying is what bmx companies also have people/investors who recieve financial gain from said company but have no real intrest in the sport ie see it as a way to make some money
personaly I don't care what hobbies the owner of a bike company who's products I choose to ride has or has had. I find it hard to believe ex or current riders who own bike companies have anything to do with how they turn out anyway. They're just putting their name to a product to instill buyer confidence. Even if a bmxer actually mined the iron ore smelted it in a furnace, produced the tubing etc, what would make it any better than a taiwanese bike?
of course riders/ex riders who own companies have everything to do with the way they turn out, s&m prob wouldnt be where it is today without moeller and the same for hoffman
Fitbikeco, made in the S+M factory
doh how could i forget that :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2:
I'd be very surprised if Hoffman is 100% rider owned at this stage in it's life. It's far too big to be all hoffmans. And it's full title 'hoffman bike corp' would suggest there is a board of fat cats that even Hoffman himself has to keep happy with sales figures!
I think alone bikes might be under sole control of it's owner!
that could be well true hoffman is very big now
i just feel if a company is owned by someone who has been or is into the sport will have more intrest/care for its customers and products than companies who have to please and listen to people who are only intrested in the company profits
for example if s&m were part owned by some fat cats do you think you would ever of seen some of the s&m ads that have been banned from the mags over the years? they would have been rejected by the fat cats pretty much straight away
or would they sell you a replacement frame at a lower cost than retail as you have broken your frame of the same make but the breakage isnt covered by the warrenty?
all i wanna know is if im buying a part is my money going to someone who has a long term future within the sport who has taken part and ridden and cares about what happens to the sport
or to someone who is just wants a profit
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Where's DSD this thread is right up his street.
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yeah perhaps in the past rider run companies were more in house/organic and individual, but nowdays it's all generic one frame the same as the next, how much input is really needed?
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yoghurt
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:LolLolLolLol:
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I'd be very surprised if Hoffman is 100% rider owned at this stage in it's life. It's far too big to be all hoffmans. And it's full title 'hoffman bike corp' would suggest there is a board of fat cats that even Hoffman himself has to keep happy with sales figures!
I think alone bikes might be under sole control of it's owner!
Didn't Mat pretty much divest all involvement in Hoffman Bikes and hand (maybe even sold) production/distribution over to one of his long standing mates/team riders (can't remember who it was at the moment)?
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steve swope?
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Proper is Carlo Grigg's company. ;)
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Proper is Carlo Grigg's company. ;)
but does he own it 100% or does he have backing from other people outside of the sport?
if he owns it £100% then it adds another one to the list :daumenhoch:
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I thought Hoffman was sold to a business woman a while ago?
:) DINGO :)
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Hoffman, I believe, sold Hoffman Bikes to a business type person, and now stays on as a figurehead/advisor etc - but doesnt own it anymor.e I cant be sure of this, but Si Tabron told me this a couple of years ago - and he's chummy with Hoffman, so it may be true.
T1 is part owned by a business woman in the far east I think.
And Mirraco is part owned by Trek mountainbikes in the USA I think too, so not rider owned. again this is all hearsay, so im not 100%.
Curtis are rider owned arent they?
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Fitbikeco, made in the S+M factory
Not all of them, some are Taiwanese made
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MirraCo :daumenhoch:
Not even close, owned by Trek
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Is whether a company 100% rider owned even matter.
Do any of the frames/parts etc. get tested properly? Is giving a frame to a rider for a few months before going into production ample testing? Do they get tested by machines as well, or is this just too expensive?
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New CEN regulations for mountain bike frames which come into force next year means all decent mountain bike frames will be machine stress tested (5 different tests). No such tests for BMX frames yet, but apparently the EU law/regulation makers are working on some BMX frame tests.
All of my frames get ridden for a year by team/test riders, mountain bike guides in the Alps, etc, before going into production.
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MirraCo :daumenhoch:
Not even close, owned by Trek
As I understand it they are distributed and manufactured by Trek and Owned by Mirra and several "investors" none of which are Trek
Could be wrong though.
but yeah, does it matter if its rider owned? is the product any better as a result of "keeping it real"? I suppose its cooler and that is usually enough to move a few boxes.
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its not about if the product is any better/stronger or how cool the company is
its about supporting rider owned companies and not lining the pockets of people who are in the indusrty/sport for the short term to make some cash, but supporting the 100% rider owned companies so in 10-15 years time they are still here and still producing good products
imagine if haro and gt hadnt been sold off by the original owners, do you think they would have still died like they did in the 90's?
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New CEN regulations for mountain bike frames which come into force next year means all decent mountain bike frames will be machine stress tested (5 different tests).
Thnaks Mike, do you have the specs for the tests, been googling, but no luck
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What if the rider/ex-rider is also a businessman (I guess they/we must all be businessmen as we are in business)?
:daumenhoch:
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Carlo had the money from the begining, family dough I think, so pretty sure Proper can be classed as rider owned.
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the make?
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2nd Childhood.
If I ever make another video, it will be 100% rider produced...
:LolLolLolLol:
G :daumenhoch:
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New CEN regulations for mountain bike frames which come into force next year means all decent mountain bike frames will be machine stress tested (5 different tests).
Thnaks Mike, do you have the specs for the tests, been googling, but no luck
CEN 14766 Mountain Bicycles - safety requirements and test methods
Impact test (falling mass)
Impact test (falling frame)
Fatigue test with pedalling forces (100,000 cycles)
Fatigue test with horizontal forces (50,000 cycles)
Fatigue test with vertical force (50,000 cycles)
The first model I've put through these tests has passed, so it's so far so good. I'll have to get all models test eventually.
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sherry chu (or her company) owns hoffman, volume, snafu and t-1 as far as i know.
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i thought proper were backed by someone so not 100% rider owned? anyone know for sure
Yeah Carlo owns 100% of both Proper and IMG.
There's a lot of 'smoke and mirrors' but Sherry Shu owns (or has an interest in) quite a few well known brands. I really wouldn't worry too much about making some sort of ethical purchase based on rider ownership cos there's a good chance you'll be being (at least partly) deceived. i.e. half the world thought Robbo owned Fit.
So far as I know Mark owns 100% of Deluxe and Grant 100% of BSD. Moeller obviously owns most (if not all) of S&M and Fit. Mirra is part owner of Mirraco. Beyond that I wouldn't like to say.....I don't know the exact ownership detail of brands that we distro, so you've got next to no chance of finding out for sure.
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cheers jamie :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
i knew about snafu and primo but not about hoffman, t1, mirraco and im quite shocked about hoffman but saying that they seem to not be as big as they used to be and i cant remember the last time i saw someone riding a decent hoffman frame not a cheap complete
im pretty sure moeller will own s&m 100% and prob fit too
its a shame we cant find out who exactly owns what and who is involved in the companies within the industry
maybe im being idealogical but supporting a 100% rider owned company is what bmx should be, when i started riding in the early 90's it was all about the rider owned companies, unfortunatly just like the 80's the 90's companies have ethier got too big or the riders lost interest/had other things they wanted to do so sold off/ got other people involved so they could do other things
im sure in 10 years time history will repeat itself and some 100% rider owned new school companies will go the same way
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This thread has shocked me by highlighting just how few rider owned companies exist in bmx, I guess money talks as most of them were started by riders.
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money has a lot to do with everything in the world, and it's crazy hard to keep something running when you hit a certain level without the assurance of a big backer behind you.. have a read of hoffman's book and you'll see how crazy over his head hoffman bikes soon became, from a payroll of 25 all working out of the ramproom to breaking new ground with taiwan - at one point one of the main US distributors went tits up leaving hoffman with a giant unpaid debt which meant he owed his suppliers literally millions.
This could have taken HB under but he assumed the debts himself (a totally honourable thing to do but not the move of a true businessman, more the move of a human) and years of Hoffman trading was to get it out of this debt - maybe this had something to do with him subsequently relinquishing full ownership of HB.
ANyroad, business and politics.. I won't say "who cares just go ride" I find it all quite interesting.
Howabout macneil? Reckon that's 100% beast owned still?
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Does anyone actually care though? Not the first thing i think about when i'm buying stuff.
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Yeah I think older riders and especially those who rode in the dead years do care to a point.
Look at how many Standards and S&M's are rode by people on this site.
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Fair point.
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i care hence the post :daumenhoch:
as S&Mc bicycle co said us who rode the in the dead years do care and if i ever decided to never ride a s&m again then the only other company id even consider for a frame would be standard, partly due to them being rider owned and because like s&m they were in there early years when i started riding and there still here today and still rider owned :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch: :daumenhoch:
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Good thread this,it's heart warming to hark back to the late 80's early 90's infancy of rider owned companies but bmx is too big these days and we as riders are too old or lazy or spoilt for choice with readily available good quality bikestuff to make a decent living out of making one-offs + small batchwork in a shed on a shitty lathe then doing the packaging adv + merch etc etc. The younger end doesn't have to start designing and making stuff that works now coz it's all been done for them by the previous generation so choose your company wisely and hope some of the £ gets back to the people who deserve it, the people passionate about bmx and lucky enough to have the skills to get a business running too.
Ha, i laughed at that bit about smelting the iron ore, very good! :LolLolLolLol:
I can see mirra with a spade and pick now!