BMX General > BMX Chat
CARBON FIBRE BMX FRAMES?
Philbert:
i'm a big fan of carbon fibre! and steel, and alloys,
i think for bmx its still in early stages of development though and everyone loves the diamond shape frame because of it simplicity. i like what can be done with carbon fibre, i spent a lot of time in about 97 studying how scott developed its project endorphin xc bike to be hardtail frame with 2 inches of travel, i was fascinated! you can create carbon fibre to do exactly what you want it to do unfortunately for bmx the only companies that can afford to develop such things are the fat cat companies like gt. saw they're latest version of the legendary zaskar in carbon fibre today and its fookin lovely!
in heinsight to that a lot of development is still going on with other materials still with alloys being hydro formed into odd shapes to give the right amount of strength where needed and chromoly tubing is still being developed to be stronger with different heat treating methods to make lighter frames and still hold the expected strength of a bmx frame
i would like to see a carbon fibre monocoque frame still in the basic diamond shape of a bmx to see how slick it looks, i think the biggest issue with cf frames is the whacky designs the manufacturers come up with. if they can make it that light with the strength in the right places theres no reason why a freestyle frame couldn't be produced these days with the lack of peg usage! wild statement i know but its true!
although power to weight ratio can be important to any sport. it can definately give you an edge from the start gate and when sprinting but experience and talent to me are the most important aspects on the track. you could be the fastet fooker on earth but if you can't glide across jumps and outwit other riders on corners with different racing lines then your not going to win!
Dark Diggler:
--- Quote from: mike@dialledbikes on May 09, 2008, 08:44 PM ---Carbon has been successful in low impact sports like road and track racing, but has hardly set the world alight in mountain biking,
--- End quote ---
no offence mike but thats not true, in cross country it is the only choice, admittedly in DH and Freeride you are correct. BMX race is comparable to cross country impact for impact, unless ridden poorly, so I see no reason why Carbon can't be explored as an option for pro race bikes.
bof:
--- Quote from: proclass35 on May 09, 2008, 08:05 PM ---"will 1lb win a race? never."
Why do you think a 1000bhp F1 car runs that close to the weight limit that it has to pick up loose rubber on the in-lap?
How did Colin Chapman manage to beat the might have Ferrari with a car using an engine out of a fire hydrant?
Why do moto GP teams bother to drill the flanges on titanium bolts?
Theres a simple formula that exists thats called the power to weight ratio, and it's the difference between a tenth or a hundredth of a second that wins or loses a race. In any wheeled sport where a power source propels a vehicle this is the crux of all design as to producing maximum performance. It's not some tosh that I've just invented. A freind of mine went to Frank Wrathall (and if you know anything about bikes/karts you'll know who he is) to try and get a couple more bhp out of his 125cc 2-stroke engine. The engine tuner could have took a couple of grand off him for 1 more bhp, but instead he told him to save his money and come back when he'd lost a stone of weight.....
But, I didn't even refer to weight when I was discussing the development of alternative materials!..and I certainly wasn't dismissing the use of metals in any application.In most of which you have listed they are far more suitable than carbon-rollcages etc. What I was trying to dispell was the suspicion and negativity in the development of alternatives, and I don't just mean carbon. The only cracks in Johnny's Carlos Fandango frames I've seen have been in aluminium, but I still chose to buy one for my son. I don't suggest for one second that a trick frame is going to improve the rider if they are crap in the first place, and I really can't understand your comment about a novice being as quick as a world champ? I think you're missing the point there. It's about individual improvement and the rider and the bike both being as good as they possibly can be, be it a novice or at the highest level.
You're right that karts don't have monocoque chassis, and that carbon is not used in lower level formulae. In fact carbon and titanium components are banned from many 'sportsman' classes for the very reason that they offer so many advantages (thats why F1 and Moto GP use a lot of it!). It's to make sure that the teams with the biggest development budgets don't run riot and enjoy an unfair advantage. We don't have the restrictions of homologation in BMX, and someone else is paying for the development, so lets enjoy the alternatives..whatever you choose to ride.
Mike@dialled- I've read your post elsewhere and I think your points are fair and valid. You may be interested to know that when I set out to build a custom mini-BMX for my son it was you that I first contacted to see if you'd build him a titanium frame, you may remember the e-mail. For whatever reason it wasn't a valid proposition, but at least it backs up my point that I've nothing against any material!
--- End quote ---
BLOODY HELL JAMIE HAVE YOU BEEN USING THE CARBON FIBRE BOTTLE OPENER AGAIN. :LolLolLolLol:
dialledbikes:
--- Quote from: Dark Diggler on May 09, 2008, 10:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: mike@dialledbikes on May 09, 2008, 08:44 PM ---Carbon has been successful in low impact sports like road and track racing, but has hardly set the world alight in mountain biking,
--- End quote ---
no offence mike but thats not true, in cross country it is the only choice, admittedly in DH and Freeride you are correct. BMX race is comparable to cross country impact for impact, unless ridden poorly, so I see no reason why Carbon can't be explored as an option for pro race bikes.
--- End quote ---
No offence taken ;). I disagree though. Carbon isn't the "only" choice in XC. Sure, it's quite popular, but I still reckon more people ride aluminium frames.
Anyway, I keep getting drawn into this debate when I really don't care anymore :idiot2:
I might design myself a carbon cruiser for next season now, just for a laugh :uglystupid2:
perry:
proclass , surely its just an assumption whether or not ive had a go in a kart ??? and isnt that a personal gripe in a discusion about a particular materials merits in bmx
you make it sound as if we all hate carbon fibre , which we dont . i have carbon fibre forks and seatpost on my STEEL kona and it flexs and creaks , but it has its use there . isnt it just the very top level of xc racing and the weekend warrior office crowd that sweats their balls over carbon xc stuff . everyone ive seen out on the trails has steel and alloy
if someone wants a state of the art frame good for them , but dont cry when the r&d money has been put into the product and not into the upkeep of numerous tracks that would benefit from a bit of corporate sponsorship
all i can see happening is gt knocking out a few of their scaled down zaskars to the top american riders , the rich buying a few for the bling factor and a whole slew of kids disheartened because their parents cant afford to buy the seemingly "must have to be at the top " kit
its a step back in my yes , but thats just my humble opinion of course :)
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