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CARBON FIBRE BMX FRAMES?

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proclass35:
"will 1lb win a race? never."
Why do you think a 1000bhp F1 car runs that close to the weight limit that it has to pick up loose rubber on the in-lap?
How did Colin Chapman manage to beat the might have Ferrari with a car using an engine out of a fire hydrant?
Why do moto GP teams bother to drill the flanges on titanium bolts?
Theres a simple formula that exists thats called the power to weight ratio, and it's the difference between a tenth or a hundredth of a second that wins or loses a race. In any wheeled sport where a power source propels a vehicle this is the crux of all design as to producing maximum performance. It's not some tosh that I've just invented. A freind of mine went to Frank Wrathall (and if you know anything about bikes/karts you'll know who he is) to try and get a couple more bhp out of his 125cc 2-stroke engine. The engine tuner could have took a couple of grand off him for 1 more bhp, but instead he told him to save his money and come back when he'd lost a stone of weight.....
But, I didn't even refer to weight when I was discussing the development of alternative materials!..and I certainly wasn't dismissing the use of metals in any application.In most of which you have listed they are far more suitable than carbon-rollcages etc. What I was trying to dispell was the suspicion and negativity in the development of alternatives, and I don't just mean carbon. The only cracks in Johnny's Carlos Fandango frames I've seen have been in aluminium, but I still chose to buy one for my son. I don't suggest for one second that a trick frame is going to improve the rider if they are crap in the first place, and I really can't understand your comment about a novice being as quick as a world champ? I think you're missing the point there. It's about individual improvement and the rider and the bike both being as good as they possibly can be, be it a novice or at the highest level.
You're right that karts don't have monocoque chassis, and that carbon is not used in lower level formulae. In fact carbon and titanium components are banned from many 'sportsman' classes for the very reason that they offer so many advantages (thats why F1 and Moto GP use a lot of it!). It's to make sure that the teams with the biggest development budgets don't run riot and enjoy an unfair advantage. We don't have the restrictions of homologation in BMX, and someone else is paying for the development, so lets enjoy the alternatives..whatever you choose to ride.
Mike@dialled- I've read your post elsewhere and I think your points are fair and valid. You may be interested to know that when I set out to build a custom mini-BMX for my son it was you that I first contacted to see if you'd build him a titanium frame, you may remember the e-mail. For whatever reason it wasn't a valid proposition, but at least it backs up my point that I've nothing against any material!

zed4130:
personaly i would want a bike that i could ride everything on , so 4130 is best for alround bmx'ing, but i suppose if you just have 1 race bike, then why not, average joe wants a alround bike, and if you only have 1 bike, then thats fair enough, and to me was always how bmx was, but that was bitd, bmx has moved on in leaps and bounds, although this isnt new, CF has been used before in bmx, but as i said on the other post i did, i noticed a few years back in the vans triple crown down hill races, nearly all the riders changed there forks to 4130, plus riders like neil wood did well without spd's and ali frames, and there was a few broken carbon forks at those races, plus broken ali frames, but if you have the dosh, or are sponsored why not,

dialledbikes:
Ahhh, I'm getting sucked into this again.

As said before, I have nothing against carbon frames per se.  And you're right that we will never know if advances can be made if R&D isn't done, so it's not even the companies who are making these carbon frames I take offence to either.  My issues are with the "carbon is progression" crowd who are jumping on this carbon bandwagon (probably because the frames match their clips  ;) ) and proclaiming it the next big thing in BMX before having any results or data to prove their claims.  Emperor's new clothes syndrome I call it.

Carbon has been successful in low impact sports like road and track racing, but has hardly set the world alight in mountain biking, and it's a long way off proving itself in BMX.

By the way, I think this looks gorgeous:

perry:
but bmx doesnt neeed carbon frames

its just a move to take a sport that anyone can go out and do to making it another lycra clad weight weenie sport driven by athletes like road and track racing is

its hardly going to get people involved when they see the top riders on these things , its not exactly something the majority can aspire to is it

but these people will always be beaten by people that spend their money on experience and not the latest ounce saving tat

i love the reference to gp / kart and formula 1 , they are known for the rough tracks they run on  :2funny:

first rule of racing , build for the conditions

im not against composites , but in the right places , like bottle cages

proclass35:
I'm not sure if BMX needs carbon frames either, but at least let's find out. Carbon has it's place as a viable alternative to other materials in certain applications, that's for sure. So lets see how far it can be pushed before we start dishing out the 'I told you so's'.
Perry, to understand the loads and stresses on a racing kart you really have to have driven one. I've ridden BMX and raced Karts. There's really no comparison.

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