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Technical & Reference Section => Tech and Restoration => Topic started by: djgivvinup on April 27, 2008, 10:05 AM

Title: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: djgivvinup on April 27, 2008, 10:05 AM
Got this pro class f&f from HRD Racing last week, gave it a good clean & its come up nice. (can someone confirm it is a genuine pro class plz)
Only small problem with it is, the brake bridge is slightly bent inwards :idiot2:
not sure whether anything can be done about that? (any advice?) 
Also it came with no stickers on, but when you catch the chrome right in the light you can see it has had 'OP Racing' stickers on both sides of the down tube, anyone know what the heck OP Racing is? or anything about them?

The other thing i want advice on is the serial number, its: B3001846  am i right in assuming its a correct pro class serial & its Feb 1983?

Any help always appreciated  :daumenhoch:

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass001-1.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass003.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass004.jpg)
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: sawzall on April 27, 2008, 11:20 AM
a way to tell a pc is measure the down tube which should be 1 -1/4" and 1 -1/8" on the top tube as for the brake stay,try a bit of gentle persuasion with a small rubber mallet or a bit of wood,i have the action bike test if you want a photo copy ;)
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: jackel on April 27, 2008, 01:23 PM
my old pro classes number was b3000665 if that helps
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: kdw712 on April 27, 2008, 01:46 PM
once you've confirmed the tube sizes match ok

then while its pretty much a bare F&F give it a weigh some how
and check the weights against any mag tests

i have a US spec supergoose and its identical in every way other than weight

also some tests on my scans page here

http://uk.geocities.com/kdw_712/scans.html (http://uk.geocities.com/kdw_712/scans.html)

Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: Frosty on April 27, 2008, 04:33 PM
looks to be the ream Mcoy as the seat/chain stay loop is quite beefy too.

My serial is

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclass3.jpg)

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclass.jpg)

here is the test too

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest1.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest2.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest3.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest4.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest5.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/y91/frosty_paul/Mongoose/proclasstest6.jpg)

Chrome looks very good to me too, ideal base for the smoke or decal up as is!

Paul
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: jimmyp on April 27, 2008, 04:44 PM
Need to take those bottom bracket cups off and have a look at the frame thickness, this is another way to tell  :daumenhoch:

Get a pic posted up and ill tell ya ;)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 28, 2008, 09:44 PM
Cheers for all the replies & stuff   ;)

Heres some pics of the bottom bracket for ya Mr jimmyp, let me know the verdict  :daumenhoch:

Thanks again..
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass006.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass005.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass007.jpg)
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: Steve P on April 28, 2008, 10:01 PM
my old pro classes number was b3000665 if that helps

Karl ... it was actually C3000665. Here's a pic when I owned it before it was painted  ;)

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/a217/steve167690/Pro%20Class/Serial.jpg)

Steve
Title: Re: pro class help
Post by: jackel on April 28, 2008, 10:11 PM
my old pro classes number was b3000665 if that helps

Karl ... it was actually C3000665. Here's a pic when I owned it before it was painted  ;)

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/a217/steve167690/Pro%20Class/Serial.jpg)

Steve
damn was close though lol cheers steve :)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: jimmyp on April 28, 2008, 10:30 PM
Cheers for all the replies & stuff   ;)

Heres some pics of the bottom bracket for ya Mr jimmyp, let me know the verdict  :daumenhoch:

Thanks again..
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass006.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass005.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass007.jpg)

Ok m8 there should be a hole inside the bottom bracket where the seat tube is, if there isn't its a usa supergoose, if there is its a pro class.  :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: jimmyp on April 28, 2008, 10:46 PM
USA SUPERGOOSE 83

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_1016.jpg)

PRO CLASS 83

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_1017.jpg)

PIC OF SUPER, CALI, PRO CLASS THICKNESS

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/DSC02833.jpg)

As you can see in pic 3 the pro class tubes are really thin.

Judging by the thickness of your frame m8 i think its a 83 usa super, sorry :(

Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: MartyC on April 29, 2008, 09:16 AM
USA SUPERGOOSE 83

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_1016.jpg)

PRO CLASS 83

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/IMG_1017.jpg)

PIC OF SUPER, CALI, PRO CLASS THICKNESS

(http://)(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g2/jimmyp12/DSC02833.jpg)

As you can see in pic 3 the pro class tubes are really thin.

Judging by the thickness of your frame m8 i think its a 83 usa super, sorry :(



Jimmy

I think your pics would be more helpful without the bearing cups in them and the bottom pic of all three BB's, I take it the pro Class is at the top, then moving clockwise the Supergoose and then the Californian; is that right?

regards

Marty  :)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 09:29 AM
Ok m8 there should be a hole inside the bottom bracket where the seat tube is, if there isn't its a usa supergoose, if there is its a pro class.  :daumenhoch:

nice info there jimmy, didnt know that little bit of info - cool  :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 09:31 AM
strikey

get the frame and then the forks on some scales   :daumenhoch:

Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 09:32 AM
Right...i had a look inside the bb area on the frame & there is only 1 hole coming from the down tube, theres no hole frrom the seat tube  :-[

Does this definetly mean its not a pro class frame?  

Also what thickness should the frame be around the bb area?

The rear chainstays are chunky as hell, were the us supergoose frames that chunky?


I did get the original mongoose pro class box that the frames were packaged in bitd with the bike when i bought it. But i suppose that could've been for another f&f that he had??

I'm clutching at straws here  :LolLolLolLol:

Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 09:49 AM
there was a big thread a while back
UK Vs US supergoose

i brought a chunky tube goose back in 05
believing it to be a pro class that was mis-badged as a super

once it arrived i did tons of research into to it and found out the US spec super was identical (externally) to the pro class
and at that time the only way to tell the difference was the weights

UK spec super is a all tubes chromoly cali / expert frame which didn't have the thicker tubing on the rear stays or down tube


get on some scales and check the results against the spec sheet up there ^^^^^^^^



fingers crossed for you  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: AtariAger on April 29, 2008, 11:06 AM
Let me see some pictures of the rear dropouts...if you can squeeze them inwards significantly with just two fingers it is a Pro Class.  The Pro Class has paper thin rear drops. 

From what I can see so far...I'd say it is a Pro Class.  One of mine below...

~Tom

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/ProCLassdifference.jpg't=1209464264)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 11:52 AM
Thanks again for all the replies, much appreciated  :daumenhoch:

heres some pics of the dropouts for ya Atari  :daumenhoch:

I can squeeze the rear dropouts in with 2 fingers no problem..but looking at yours the dropouts do look a bit thinner  :-\

I'm off to weigh it very shortly, i'll let you know the outcome.
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass1001.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass1003.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass1002.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass1004.jpg)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 01:17 PM
just had the frame weighed on some digital scales..with no bb or headset just bare frame then forks

frame weighs 1.8566666 kg
forks weigh   0.7633333kg

roughly converted to pounds i think is: frame 4lb 1oz, forks are 1lb 6oz

Pro class weights in the test say frame is 3lb 13oz & forks are 1lb 10oz.   :idiot2:



Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 01:24 PM
would seem from the weights its a PC
your 4oz's over on the frame
some which could be the cups and headset

sure my super frame was around 5lb mark or more
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 01:28 PM
Its weird that the frame is 4oz over but the forks are 4oz under what the test was. 
I weighed the frame with no bb cups literally just bare frame with decals, & the forks were completey bare too, not even the bearing race.

What is the weight of a bare US supergoose frame?
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*
Post by: AtariAger on April 29, 2008, 01:32 PM
heres some pics of the dropouts for ya Atari  :daumenhoch:

Definitely a Pro Class you got there!  Nice job...pics tell no lies!   :daumenhoch:

~Tom
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 01:38 PM
What is the weight of a bare US supergoose frame?

i have that info
just not to hand

i'll try and dig it out tonight
that or re-weigh the frame

i remb it was significantly different
not just a few oz's

so thats good news for you
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 01:39 PM
Superb!..i've just danced around the living room after reading that Atari  :LolLolLolLol: :LolLolLolLol:

Thats awesome, i was 95% sure it was a Pro Class to start with, then the doubts started creaping in after reading the replies i got on this post, i've built & stripped it twice just to get the weights and measurements etc..

I'm chuffed as f**k now   :LolLolLolLol:

Thanks yet again for all the replies & all the help...i'm so glad it turned out well  :daumenhoch:

Gonna build the beauty again now  8)

Cheers...

Chris
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: djgivvinup on April 29, 2008, 06:14 PM
I hate to bring it up but what about jimmyp's theory of the hole inside the bb from the seat tube? mine doesn't have that.
Also the weight thing..mine is the same weight overall as the pro class in the test but my frame weighs in heavier & the forks lighter than the test.

Any opinions?  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: jimmyp on April 29, 2008, 10:05 PM
mmm a dificult one, just had a look at the super and the pro class rear dropouts again and both are 3mm. Everything about both  frames is just the same except the inside of the bottom bracket. Although i need to get the bb cups off and weigh both to see the true difference :-\
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 10:07 PM
bloody mongoose ......  >:D
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: MartyC on April 29, 2008, 10:09 PM
We're 26 years or so too late to work this one out easily  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: jimmyp on April 29, 2008, 10:11 PM
Aghhh just had another look and if my life depended on it i would say the pro class rear dropouts are thinner but only just. The super is a defo 3mm where as the pro class is very slightly less by 000.05mm  :D
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: kdw712 on April 29, 2008, 10:11 PM
just found this in one of my sad bloke type spreadsheets
about my US spec supergoose


fork & frame     £110.00    apparent pro class

but weight is 2lb over test review figures   3.3kg   7.27lbs total combined weight
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: jimmyp on April 29, 2008, 10:46 PM
Lets have some pics of the box  :smitten: :shocked: :)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: AtariAger on April 30, 2008, 03:16 AM
I hate to bring it up but what about jimmyp's theory of the hole inside the bb from the seat tube? mine doesn't have that.
Also the weight thing..mine is the same weight overall as the pro class in the test but my frame weighs in heavier & the forks lighter than the test.

Any opinions?  :daumenhoch:

No worries...I have one of my Black Chrome frames hanging up right next to me...ONE hole coming from the downtube...no hole from seat tube.  So that theory is false...sorry jimmyp!   ;)

Also...the Pro Class is the only frame I have ever seen the b/b cup groove on.  Strikey...you can see it on your b/b and also in the picture I posted...another way of confirming a Pro Class.  The Super goose is flat all the way through.

Here is the inside shot of a Supergoose b/b...no ridge/groove

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/DSC00363.jpg't=1202149878)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: AtariAger on April 30, 2008, 03:19 AM
Also...just measured the rear dropout thickness on the same Black Chrome frame...............

..........................2mm........................... :daumenhoch:

So there you go! 

Pro Class... :smitten:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: Brandy Truffle on April 30, 2008, 07:00 AM
i've just stripped a survivor Pro Class complete bike i bought from a local paper,even got the original shop receipts with it so i know it's kosha....

I dont have scales to weigh frameset etc,but can tell you this one DOESNT have the hole Jimmy talks about, but DOES have cup grooves in the bottom bracket.
Would be interesting to compare some frame numbers close to Jimmys to see if that was the norm in production & likewise to one that doesnt.


Being an ex engineer,who specialised in batch built components,i can honestly say i think small details such as that would have inevitably varied along the course of a production run. All in the name of "continuous product development etc etc.." Especially in this case as the details mentioned would not have been externally visual and your average punter wouldnt notice/care at the time...















Save a group of investigating 30 something Old Schoolers nearly 25 years later!  :LolLolLolLol:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: FuNMoNsTeR on April 30, 2008, 07:04 PM
Interesting thread.... 
 I bought this 'Pro Class' from a Rad Member a couple of months ago..... I have since had the original owner and restorer contact me thru eBay saying it is a SupergooseIII. When i asked who he sold it to he changed his mind.......said he had restored and sold on a SupergooseIII and a Pro Class and that the frameset i have is a Pro Class..... Have i had the wool pulled over my eyes???
 My frame weighs 4Lb 9ozs dry The rear dropouts are 2.5 mm thick. There is no seat tube hole in the BB shell and the BB is not stepped but smooth. Serial number is: H3001849
 Pictures: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320239495662
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: jimmyp on April 30, 2008, 08:03 PM
Interesting thread.... 
 I bought this 'Pro Class' from a Rad Member a couple of months ago..... I have since had the original owner and restorer contact me thru eBay saying it is a SupergooseIII. When i asked who he sold it to he changed his mind.......said he had restored and sold on a SupergooseIII and a Pro Class and that the frameset i have is a Pro Class..... Have i had the wool pulled over my eyes???
 My frame weighs 4Lb 9ozs dry The rear dropouts are 2.5 mm thick. There is no seat tube hole in the BB shell and the BB is not stepped but smooth. Serial number is: H3001849
 Pictures: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320239495662

I had the same frame offerd out to me and eventually declined it m8 cause i thought it was a supergoose 3 :-\. If tom is correct which i think he is then its a super3 :-[
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: jimmyp on April 30, 2008, 08:09 PM
I hate to bring it up but what about jimmyp's theory of the hole inside the bb from the seat tube? mine doesn't have that.
Also the weight thing..mine is the same weight overall as the pro class in the test but my frame weighs in heavier & the forks lighter than the test.

Any opinions?  :daumenhoch:

No worries...I have one of my Black Chrome frames hanging up right next to me...ONE hole coming from the downtube...no hole from seat tube.  So that theory is false...sorry jimmyp!   ;)

Also...the Pro Class is the only frame I have ever seen the b/b cup groove on.  Strikey...you can see it on your b/b and also in the picture I posted...another way of confirming a Pro Class.  The Super goose is flat all the way through.

Here is the inside shot of a Supergoose b/b...no ridge/groove

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/g139/AtariAger/DSC00363.jpg't=1202149878)

Just checked my Pro Class and the bottom bracket is the same with bb cup grove on. Looks like your ok strikey its a pro class :daumenhoch: nice one.

Wonder why some have an extra hole in the bb, i thought it was to save weight  :)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: kdw712 on May 01, 2008, 12:14 AM
so the machined/stepped BB is the big clue then - cool add that to the knowledge bank  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: Brandy Truffle on May 01, 2008, 03:55 AM
Wonder why some have an extra hole in the bb, i thought it was to save weight  :)


Usually its to aid heat dissippation & minimise distortion when welding 2 'tubes' together.
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: djgivvinup on May 01, 2008, 08:16 AM
Interesting thread.... 
 I bought this 'Pro Class' from a Rad Member a couple of months ago..... I have since had the original owner and restorer contact me thru eBay saying it is a SupergooseIII. When i asked who he sold it to he changed his mind.......said he had restored and sold on a SupergooseIII and a Pro Class and that the frameset i have is a Pro Class..... Have i had the wool pulled over my eyes???
 My frame weighs 4Lb 9ozs dry The rear dropouts are 2.5 mm thick. There is no seat tube hole in the BB shell and the BB is not stepped but smooth. Serial number is: H3001849
 Pictures: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320239495662

There are a couple of things different on your 'Pro Class' frame & forks compared to mine...firstly the fork dropouts on mine have the slit to slide the axle into but then it goes into a circle at the top, where as the forks on yours just have a straight slit.(hope that makes sense?)
Secondly the bb is not stepped like you say, where as mine is..
Also the rear dropouts on mine are 2mm thick on mine & 2.5mm on yours..

It all seems very strange, but i'll leave to to Atari & jimmyp for the conclusion  :LolLolLolLol:


I'll get some pics up of mine shortly, cos i built it yesterday & i'll get some pics of that box for ya jimmyp  :daumenhoch:
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again*
Post by: djgivvinup on May 01, 2008, 02:54 PM
heres some pics of the complete bike with the box for the frameset..

I'm still looking for a couple of parts for it....180mm mongoose stamped opc & the proper takagi chainring to go on the power plate.   anyone got either part??  :daumenhoch:

(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass010.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass011.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass012.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass013.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass009.jpg)
(http://www.radbmx.co.uk/archive/albums/bb13/djgivvinup/proclass014.jpg)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: kdw712 on May 02, 2008, 06:19 AM
very nice  :daumenhoch:

i can't believe that box though
& the fact that its survived for so long
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: AtariAger on May 02, 2008, 06:31 AM
Hey Strikey...did you purchase the Pro Class from HRD Racing...?   ???
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: djgivvinup on May 02, 2008, 08:58 AM
Hey Strikey...did you purchase the Pro Class from HRD Racing...?   ???

Yes mate i did buy it from HRD Racing, why do you ask?
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: jimmyp on May 02, 2008, 07:59 PM
Hey Strikey...did you purchase the Pro Class from HRD Racing...?   ???

Who's HRD Racing  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: djgivvinup on May 02, 2008, 08:06 PM
This is were it all came from jimmyp....HRD Racing's for sale post a short while back..

http://www.radbmx.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=60171.msg612615#msg612615
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: AtariAger on May 02, 2008, 08:43 PM
Hey Strikey...did you purchase the Pro Class from HRD Racing...?   ???

Yes mate i did buy it from HRD Racing, why do you ask?

I was just wondering who got a hold of it...when I saw the box it clicked.  You got it for a steal!  I had offered him double the price you paid while he was taking offers!  You must have sweet-talked him pretty good...LOL.
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: jimmyp on May 02, 2008, 09:23 PM
mmm how much did it go for in the end  ;)
Title: Re: pro class help *updated*again* now with pics
Post by: djgivvinup on May 03, 2008, 09:11 AM
after asking HRD for first dib dobs on the for sale post, i pm'd him & then gave him a call..had a bit of a chat about the bike & the other bits he had for sale then came to a price he was happy with.
After that i hassled the crap out of him to make sure the deal stayed intact  :LolLolLolLol:

He's a nice bloke....even nicer now i have his old Pro Class  :daumenhoch:


Can't tell ya what i paid for it jimmyp...i'd hate to see a grown man cry  :LolLolLolLol:  :LolLolLolLol:
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