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Events => Old School Series Racing => Topic started by: RATTY on June 10, 2008, 04:02 PM
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After in cognitos post where he questioned the fact that I was awarded last place points at Hersden despite not actually racing. I would like some feedback as to what everyone thinks?
In the past we have awarded attendance points for people who broke down while on the way to a race, and have always awarded last place points to anyone who was injured and attended.
If need be we will make it a rule, depending on the results of this thread :daumenhoch:
Oh and if you feel I shouldnt have got the points from Sunday, please say so, be honest and if need be I will delete my points :daumenhoch:
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:wtf: are we even debating this ????? last place points i feel
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:wtf: are we even debating this ????? last place points i feel
We have always awarded last place points to injured riders who attend the race, but it is a valid point as to why? Just want to make sure everyone is ok with the way we do it :daumenhoch:
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:wtf: are we even debating this ????? last place points i feel
Exactly.
I reckon last place points if they're injured or roll off the gate.
12 points/attendance in all other circumstances if they've registered and paid entry fee.
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you turned up and paid your entrance fee, so i dont see what the problem is, last place points seems fair to me, i think that in cog neato must be a wimp to hide behind a false name, come on show us who you realy are and stop hiding you pussy.
Deb
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Its fine by me, if you bother to turn up at a race but cant race because of an injury or break down en route you should get the points. You are hardly going to win the series by getting last place each time are you
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I reckon last place points if they're injured or roll off the gate.
12 points/attendance in all other circumstances if they've registered and paid entry fee.
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Think this sounds right to me.
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I'll stick my nose in and give my opinion on a South Region Only Discussion.
I hope nobody takes offence and starts shouting at me!
If you've turned up with the intention of racing.
You've paid your race entry fee.
You're unable to race due to unforseen circumstances i.e. Taken ill, Injured during practice, Bike snapped in two or bike failure, Family emergency etc, etc.
To withhold points due to a rider unable to race who made the effort and with the all the best intentions is just mean spirited.
The south region has its own Points System and can make its own ruling. The North Region is subject to North Region BMX Rules/Points System and we'll have to abide by that (BTW, I haven't a clue what they are)
If I turned up to a meet and had a bike failure or got injured during practice, I'd be a bit peeved if I didn't get any points.
I'm not quite so sure about anyone who's car breaks down on the way to the meet though but if your there and have paid ya money then you should get points.
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If you make the effort and turn up and pay then I dont see a problem, if you dont make it for what ever reason, bit of a grey area, but I'd say EUROVISION STYLE "NIL POINTS"
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Okay, so all the people who actually race are agreed - You turn up and register = you are entitled to score points. Now, back to Ratty's original question -
Where are all the oldschool riders hiding? ???
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Where are all the oldschool riders hiding? ???
I don't think you can take 1 race (North) or 2 races (South) as a major slump.
The South has quite a few races close to each other which might make riders pick and choose their races plus holidays and family commitments etc, etc.
The North had Crewe which was a fair distance and was a scary track.
Hopefully its just a blip!!!
Hartlepool should have a far better attendance.
And the National at Hartlepool will drag you down Kenny and the rest of your crew, so it should be well supported.
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Well Kenny S and I were planning on coming down to take the Payback cash (assuming I didn't self destruct again!) But my thumb is now in a splint for 6 weeks so the cash is yours for the taking Moley ;) Rather gutted I'll miss Hartlepool but just trying to get it healed in time for MK.
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It would take an act of God fo me to pick any prize money up!!
Thanks Kenny for the ego boost though!!! :daumenhoch:
Get yourself down anyway Kenny. It should be a good night!!
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i've never raced in any of the series races so who am i to say.......but it does seem strange to the outsider to get points for not even racing? but i'm not saying yes or no or having a go at anyone! :daumenhoch:
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Impetuous as ever I hit the "no points" button before reading your post Tony. I took the survey as it read and thought it referred to riders entering an event but not attending, ie. getting someone else to register them albeit they had no intention of attending. We had that situation in the South Region and decided it was not right to do such a thing as riders were 'buying' themselves their British Championship qualification. Different story if you've turned up, paid your entry fee and then felt unwell or similar. After reading the post I'm opting for last place points. Humps
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Like I said on the other thread a last place point seems fair, but it can so easily be abused.
Imagine you have a race and there's only 5 riders - your guaranteed a 6th place, for not even getting to the start gate. Whereas if you go to a race with a mssive turnout you could end up with far less points - even though you may have knocked your bo!!ocks out trying.
Maybe use british cycling rules as they are universal - you gotta roll off the gate to score a point in each race, and then place lowest points. Pretty sure if you don't start you don't get any points at all.
However - I actually like the minimum points idea here - didn't think of it before, but will deffo stop anyone building up their points just because there's not many people at a certain race. (Kinda levels the playing field a bit - stops anyone getting a bonus for clever picking of the races they attend - not that I am saying Tony does this - he doesn't miss a bloody race all year!)
That's got my vote now I've had a look at the options. - Not that it'll make any difference to me in the event. I'll be lucky to get 3 rounds in by the end of the season, so won't be enough to qualify for anything.
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I think minimum points would be the farest system personally, that way the attendance is not going to affect the points awarded.
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- Not that it'll make any difference to me in the event. I'll be lucky to get 3 rounds in by the end of the season, so won't be enough to qualify for anything.
You have already qualified Al, the riders have given you a by on all rounds. So we shall see you at Peterborough for the Brits, God willing :daumenhoch:
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gotta agree with zippy minimum points seems a fair deal :daumenhoch:
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Burn the score sheets and do an endo on the tabletop :P
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???
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Id say that you have to race to get points.
if your not on the track, you cant be last........to have eaten the last pie, you have to have actually eaten one....
It may be unfortunate that you broke down etc, but that deserves commiserations and a beer at the pub afterwards, not points.
ratty's a decent rider, thers no reason he should need points really.
Just my opinion.
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Fair comment Phil, its been customary to award points to OSS guys who have been in this situation before. Its strange that despite us doing this for the last year, it became a problem when I got the points. I will be out of action for at least a month, maybe more. One of the biggest things in my life outside of the family is my racing, and tbh I am gutted that people feel I have cheated. I will PM Moley and remove the points from the table.
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My comment was in no way pointed at you tony, and i certainly wasnt implying that you have cheated, it was only as an opinion on the subject.
I wouldnt feel victimised if i were you, for the question to arise it had to be associated with one rider or another having had the points awarded without racing, and its a relevant question.
I think you were right to run the poll, so as to see peoples thoughts, and set a precedent.
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I appreciate that Phil, but I wont have people accuse me of cheating, the points will be removed, and we will make a decision regarding other riders points when the poll finishes.
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(edited my last post while you were replying.)
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dont think anyone was accusing you mate... just leave be.... you have enough to getting on with at the moment....
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i would like to know who started all this pointless arguing in the first place,
they stir the sh*t then sit back and keep their mouth shut, come on be a man(or woman) whoever you are, show yourself with your true name, or are you a coward?
Deb
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I think after taking the time and cost to travel, and having paid registration shows commitment to the oss, and therefore should be rewarded with points, (sorry don't understand at all the points system), so could not say how many. To have taken the time cost and energy to get to a meeting, shows that there was initially intent to race.....so wheres the problem with awarding points?????
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I think the discussion is valid but it wouldn't apply to the North Region where we are tied to North Region BMX Rules.
If you dont start a race should you get any points etc. should be resolved by the RATTY's Poll.
For the South and Scottish regions they would have to decide what is fair. So long as everyone is happy and the ruling is fair, I dont see what the problem is.
IMO. I dont think that you should get any points if you didn't make it to the meet (car broke down etc, etc) as it could be misused.
But in RATTY's case where he turned up intending to race but unable to he should get points. Whether its last place or 12pts or whatever. It's not like RATTY is trying cheat the system. He turns up for every race and is enthusiatic about racing as anyone.
But 'In Cog Neato' is obviously stirring the shite otherwise he would brought up the point in a more straightforward manner instead of hiding behind an alias!!!
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Ratty i've got plenty of points up here in the North Racing Series, i can spare you 32 points.send me an sae and i will send them to you ASAP. :LolLolLolLol:
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:LolLolLolLol: Can I have some as well?
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Another thread thats caught my eye.......................right then last season I broke my collar bone and fooked my wrist while fighting for a top 3 finsh in the OSW07, I could not physically get on a bike for the next race but I made the effort to get up early and go to the next race, I paid my fees and I was given last place on the day.....................now nobody EVER said anything about that and I wasnt the only one :idiot2:
And also think about this, its a bit of a crap rule I know but its a rule all the same......................WE DROP THE WORST 5 RESULTS! so that 7th place most probably wont even appear in the standings at the end, in fact im gonna post the real standings right now.
And one more point for in cog neato or what ever the feck your name is, Ratty is my oldest friend but I do not blindley agree with everything he says but he has done more for Old School Racing than you could ever fecking dream about you knob cheese! :tickedoff: :2gunsfiring_v1: :knuppel2: :rant: :wtf: :Aresehole:
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Sorry guys - but isn't this an open forum? I thought free speach is the order of the day here.
I wouldn't call anyone names no matter how my oppinion differs to someone else.
This is getting a bit low now isn't it?
This cog neto person hasn't called anyone any names, or even slagged anyone off. (Forgive me if I mis read the original post he made)
And it looked like Tony was gonna go with the minimum points thing - which makes it look like the fella may have made a valid point even if it was put the wrong way.
i don't like this fighting stuff.
This aint the place for it IMHO.
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Balls to that Roonga, this person is going under a new name to hide his/her id...............thats low.
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whoever in cog neato is should be very afraid, the 1 thing tony guarantees is hell be honest and do it to your face hates wanky keyboard warriors, id be watching my back now buddy :knuppel2:
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Balls to that Roonga, this person is going under a new name to hide his/her id...............thats low.
ditto,
at least have the guts to let us know who you are,
to have known that ratty never even raced but got points you must have been at hersden, its even worse thinking that some-one you call a friend can stab you in the back, at least have have the guts to admit who you are.
Deb
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I dont think it was wrong for 'In Cog Neato' to bring up the subject as its an open forum.
The objectionable thing is the way he did.
Anonymous!!
Shouting!!
and the general tone of the post was deliberately confrontational and unpleasant!!
After a bit of a slanging match a few weeks ago which is now sorted and forgotten about (I hope)
Some people will be thinking that I'm the slimeball 'In Cog Neato'.
All I know is, there will be 2 people on this site who will know that I'm not 'In Cog Neato'
and that will be 'In Cog Neato' and me!!!
Some people just like to stir shit.
I'd prefer it if we all acted our age once and a while!!!
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Moley, I know you aint Incognito. It doesnt matter who he/she is, its just a shame that they feel the need to hide, I thought mates could discuss anything, I didnt have an issue with the subject at all :daumenhoch:
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Cheers Tony!! :daumenhoch:
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Can Sir Stupple not disclose who in cog nito is to us??
Please Bill ... be a sweetie :)
Sharon xx
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Moley, I know you aint Incognito. It doesnt matter who he/she is, its just a shame that they feel the need to hide, I thought mates could discuss anything, I didnt have an issue with the subject at all :daumenhoch:
your getting tabloid press treatment, OS world champ one year :LolLolLolLol: dirty cheat the next what a lot of bollocks.you have my vote mate.grp4(black quadangle)
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If this forum software is anything like the stuff on badbmx, all the mods and admins will know the IP address of cog neto, they've only gotta have a little scoot around to see who else has logged in with this IP address to see who it is. (Unless it's someone else coming onto the site using the same PC as the other member - ie family memeber etc.) They'll also know who voted for what option in any vote, so could in theory use this info too.
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If they have a dynamic IP Address which changes everytime you log onto your ISP Server then the IP will change each time.
If they have a fixed IP address then they can be easily traced.
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In cognito's IP addy doesnt match any RADBMX user. He/She may have been a reader, rather than a poster up until this point.
Alternatively, as Moley said, it may be some Dynamic IP problem.
Either way, theres no association with any RAD member.
Now, is this discussion about "incognito", or about the Valid queston that Ratty has put forwards?
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Votes look really interesting.
Same amount of votes for no points, as there are for minimum points scoring - thought these two options wouldn't have won a vote.
Come on everyone who hasn't voted yet - get your oppinions heard
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(http://www.mattscdsingles.com/acatalog/5546%20new.jpg)
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I checked In cognito`s ip addy as soon as he/she signed up as I thought it might be another member, but unfortunatly there is no match with anyone else :(
With regards to the original question I thought it was a matter of course that you get points if you register for a race, whether you roll of the gate or not, isn`t it the case that you don`t have to compete in 5 regionals to qualify for the brits, only register.
At the Brixton regoinal Gary Grey could only ride in his first moto, how ever he still got last place points for his remaining motos and last place for the b final, how is the old school any different ?
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Well, the only way I can think of that it differs, is that there seems to be room to adapt the rules in OS racing, to suit the general concensus of opinion, and that Tony has decided to put up a poll to reflect that..... ;)
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Does anybody know about the North Region BMX rules?
Do you have to start 1 race to get points or just register and not race?
I'm going to ask them at Hartlepool for a copy of the rules so I can put them on the results website for the North Region Riders.
Its only fair that everyone knows the rules? It stops any whinging!!!
The South region will work out their own rules and I'll put them on the results website for the South Region riders.
I dont think it matters too much for the Scottish region. They'll make it up as they go along until their rider base grows enough so that they'll need set rules to avoid disputes. At the moment they're a pretty close knit clan.
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Geeees when did it all get so dam serious? i thought it was suposed to be about having fun on old bikes? ???
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Geeees when did it all get so dam serious? i thought it was suposed to be about having fun on old bikes? ???
People are taking this all really seriously now.
It deffo did start out as just a laff, but it is so competitive now. Just look at Quadpaul and zippy fighting it out (not litterally) - they both want it so badly! And all the other riders want the chance to be there with them.
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sorry mate, i didn't mean no competition or friendly rivalry.....but it does seem to have become too serious and lost what it had back at the start?
i maybe well out of order and wrong for saying so as i've never actually got my sorry @rse to one of the races :-[ but maybe that's one of the reasons people have dropped out? ???
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We are racing under North Region BMX rules and they score the races.
I haven't got a clue what the rules are but I would be interested in knowing what they are.
Just like I'd like to know the rules of any sport or game I'm playing.
Competition is healthy and adds to the excitement.
You wouldn't want it to turn into some PC Sports Day type of thing where you dont get any losers or winners, just everyone is a winner.
It might be a laugh and hearing the Northern Monkeys laughing all the way around the track is quite amusing but everyone puts the effort in.
I might be a backrunner but I still like to give it a go with MotomagII and Creamy and anyone else around me.
If I just wanted to ride around track then I wouldn't bother with all of this.
Being in a race is totally different than just messing around on a track.
It's a complete BUZZ!! :daumenhoch:
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i think the best way to sort this situation out would be to ask the riders that were there that day that managed to turn up to vote on this
its a rare situation some one not being able to safely ride after paying to race
rather than asking people that dont know tony or race old skool south
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I am concerned that the votes cast doesn't reflect the general consensus, perhaps there are a few fake votes sneaking in to stir the crap. If your voting please put a comment up.
Its still about fun Rob, I just want it to be as fair as possible. :daumenhoch:
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I did vote but this vote doesn't affect me because I race under Official North Region BMX Rules.
If you only want South Region riders voting in this poll then I'll retract my vote!!
I did vote for No points.
But I retracted that vote and voted for Minimum points (whatever that turns out to be).
If a rider shows up at the track and pays to enter. He/she falls ill or gets injured or something happens to the bike so they can't race then they should get minimum points because they showed good intentions to race and were unable to do so through no fault of their own. Because gate numbers can vary wildly between events the minimum points awarded is fair. If the rider wishes to get Last Place points all he/she needs to do is to roll off the start grid and last place points will be awarded.
If a rider pre-registers and fails to turn up to race or a rider turns up without the intent to race then they should get nil points.
Ultimately its a South Region decision and might be best handled by the riders on the day. Because only they will know the full details of each case and will be able to judge accordingly.
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i realy cant see the problem :wtf: is the prob with the way it was done last year and this :rant: :rant:
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If you don't cross the start line, you shouldn't get any points. It's not if it really matters, all the points don't go towards the final placings at the end of the season anyway...
Remember kids.. Oldschool is about fun, isn't it? ???
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in my veiw minimum points if you turn up and pay ,that way you wont get the situation of someone getting high points for a low gate turnout,i think thats fair,you should get some thing for making the effort and turning up even if you cant race for whatever reason.
my veiws in no way reflect on any one person,it will just stop any unfair advantage remarks.
i voted min points
grp4(black quad)
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I reckon last place points if they're injured or roll off the gate.
12 points/attendance in all other circumstances if they've registered and paid entry fee.
Think this sounds right to me.
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that seems fair to me too :)
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Why would you drive to a race, then pay money to race, and then not race, it sounds wrong to me. If you are ill, pissed, blind or a cripple... don't pay your money and don't race :)
:tickedoff: ;D
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Why would you drive to a race, then pay money to race, and then not race, it sounds wrong to me. If you are ill, pissed, blind or a cripple... don't pay your money and don't race :)
:tickedoff: ;D
Probably because of the way the points were done up til this vote - they can still score high points ths way, and gain places in the table without racing.
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Why would you drive to a race, then pay money to race, and then not race, it sounds wrong to me. If you are ill, pissed, blind or a cripple... don't pay your money and don't race :)
:tickedoff: ;D
Probably because of the way the points were done up til this vote - they can still score high points ths way, and gain places in the table without racing.
It's like not going to work, but still getting paid. Sweet. :uglystupid2:
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It's like not going to work, but still getting paid. Sweet. :uglystupid2:
If it happened every day then it would be a piss take, the point is its usually a one off, and is only done when racers are genuine.
During the winter series I broke my thumb, I could have collected last place points just by entering, but I rolled round the track to earn my points, because I didnt want to take the piss, precisely what I have been accused of here.
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During the winter series I broke my thumb, I could have collected last place points just by entering, but I rolled round the track to earn my points, because I didnt want to take the piss, precisely what I have been accused of here.
This is where things start to get blurred for me Tony. I can't see the point in entering a race with an inury, purely to obtain minimum points. It's not a case of taking the piss. :daumenhoch:
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Dan, I won the OSS winter series by 1 point!! over a season. Do the maths to see why?
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Dan, I won the OSS winter series by 1 point!! over a season. Do the maths to see why?
Maybe I don't take the whole racing concept as serious as some might, to the point where the issue we are discussing crops up. :daumenhoch:
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Its not that serious mate, but a #1 plate, is a #1 plate, worth fighting for in my books :daumenhoch:
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Tony mate don't worry about other people ;) you deserve the points as i for one know the effort you put into bmx racing and your detrmination at the sport :daumenhoch: you don't have to justify anything geezer :)
JUST HURRY UP AND GET THAT CRUISER OUT AGAIN SO WE CAN BASH ELBOWS IN 40+ ;D
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at the end of the day, it don't matter if you finish first or last, its the taking part, having fun and making new friends along the way that matters,
what started out as a bit of fun and a laugh has become way to competative with all the back stabbing and slagging off, thats why i only go to the daggers races now.
in cog neato was right to raise the issue if they felt it was wrong, (but why hide) everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Deb
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Why would you drive to a race, then pay money to race, and then not race, it sounds wrong to me. If you are ill, pissed, blind or a cripple... don't pay your money and don't race :)
:tickedoff: ;D
I remeber a race that Phil was at where someone was ready to race but didn't because they were helping someone who was ill. It would seem unfair for them to come away without any points at all then for doing a good deed when they have intention of racing.
Could people have to race in a % of the races to be allowed in the table? I don't know why anyone would turn up to every race just to collect minmum points but there are some funny folks in the world ;D...that would stop that kind of thing though
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:rant: :rant: the thing thats realy pissin me off is at the race in question tony was goin to race o/s but those of us THERE at the time talked him out of it in light of the problem he is suffering !!!!!!!! he was just about to dig his o/s out the van n ride anyway but my front tube decided to have a prob with the valve as i put air in it !!!!!!! at this point tony bein the truly nice guy he is offered me his tube rendering him unable to race :wtf: so i realy cant see why people are having an issue with the fact he picked up a few points !!!!!!!!!!!!!! infact i think it should stand as it was at the time and if any rule change is considered it should run from the next race in the series :tickedoff:
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:rant: :rant: the thing thats realy pissin me off is at the race in question tony was goin to race o/s but those of us THERE at the time talked him out of it in light of the problem he is suffering !!!!!!!! he was just about to dig his o/s out the van n ride anyway but my front tube decided to have a prob with the valve as i put air in it !!!!!!! at this point tony bein the truly nice guy he is offered me his tube rendering him unable to race :wtf: so i realy cant see why people are having an issue with the fact he picked up a few points !!!!!!!!!!!!!! infact i think it should stand as it was at the time and if any rule change is considered it should run from the next race in the series :tickedoff:
So you 'caused all the grief then, taking the poor lads innertube so he couldn't roll over the line... some mate you are ;D ;)
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i voted no. no racey. no points. :)
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So you 'caused all the grief then, taking the poor lads innertube so he couldn't roll over the line... some mate you are ;D ;)
mmmmm it would seam like it :tickedoff: so feel very pissed off about the whole issue
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Yep no race no points.
If you want last place points you should finish last.
If Valentino Rossi dont show on the start line (even though he's been qualifying for the three previous days)
he gets no points.
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Does anyone like dressing up?
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you doo si
a soldier with cammo hoooody
he he
r
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You know what cracks me up about this post, it was put up at a time when Tony was at his lowest, whoever in cog neto is needs to watch his back, your timing was crap mate :knuppel2:
Tony, Sam and Tony have always been fair to other racers, this is the 1st and only time he's used a points buy, even when i asked him to when he broke his ribs and then thumb, why now?, because he has a fookin cyst in his brain, combine that with severe hydrocephulus and see why we stopped him you knob, even i, his nine months pregnant Mrs had to talk him out of rolling off the gate to get his points then i have shuffle munsterers like you running him down :wtf:
Whilst we're at the hospital tomorrow willing him to just make it through his operation (ever looked into the kind of surgery he's having buddy?, try it, ), let alone the potential shit that he faces, oh that would be least case scenario, lifelong epilepsy, worst case doesn't bear thinking about, err that would be death, our newborn daughter could end up without a father??, you reflect on your post buddy and i hope you're still glad you posted :Aresehole:
For the record both of us agree this needs to be resolved for the whole series but did it really need doing now????
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You know what cracks me up about this post, it was put up at a time when Tony was at his lowest, whoever in cog neto is needs to watch his back, your timing was crap mate :knuppel2:
Tony, Sam and Tony have always been fair to other racers, this is the 1st and only time he's used a points buy, even when i asked him to when he broke his ribs and then thumb, why now?, because he has a fookin cyst in his brain, combine that with severe hydrocephulus and see why we stopped him you knob, even i, his nine months pregnant Mrs had to talk him out of rolling off the gate to get his points then i have shuffle munsterers like you running him down :wtf:
Whilst we're at the hospital tomorrow willing him to just make it through his operation (ever looked into the kind of surgery he's having buddy?, try it, ), let alone the potential shit that he faces, oh that would be least case scenario, lifelong epilepsy, worst case doesn't bear thinking about, err that would be death, our newborn daughter could end up without a father??, you reflect on your post buddy and i hope you're still glad you posted :Aresehole:
For the record both of us agree this needs to be resolved for the whole series but did it really need doing now????
im married to a nicky,she speaks her mind just like you :LolLolLolLol:
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Exactly.
I reckon last place points if they're injured or roll off the gate.
12 points/attendance in all other circumstances if they've registered and paid entry fee.
I thought this was sorted way back on post 5, as per the words of Mike at Dialled Bikes.
Seems fair.
We should lock this thread, as it seems to have caused more hassle than it's worth.
Remember guys, these are kids bikes and the whole OSS series should be fun, not some political quagmire.
We don't know who incognito is. No IP match. But threats to anyone shouldn't be made on this forum.
Come on chaps, lets all be happy.